These days BBC urdu has presenting essays, blogs and few short films about sexuality in Pakistan.
There have been different perspectives and experiences that people have presented, all written by Pakistanis, mainly females. Some of these appear outright bull****, like, one man says that his bride, 26 yearold with a masters degree, did not know about nature of relationship between wife and husband, bcoz she was a very religious girl.
Most bloggers say that there is sexual frustration among people in Pakistan, the overall message (i see) that the man behind this series wants to present is that people shud be more open about sex.
Now, in making his point he also plays the card of abuse, many essays claim that abuse is bcoz children do not talk ot parents bout sex, well, may be its true to some extent.
Now, i said , let me ask my fellow guppies, what is their take on this issue.
Specifically tell us,
1-Do you think talking more about sexuality will bring about healthier behaviour among youth or will it do the opposite?
2-Are abuse/assaults result of a conservative society?
3-Is our society right or wrong in not talking about sexuality openly?
I think that sexuality should be discussed at the right time, in the right place, openly. Girls need to know about their cycles - BEFORE they start, boys need to know what their bodies are going thru. The way that the reproductive systems work should be explained matter-of-factly with all the details about cycles, sexually transmitted diseases etc. Teaching responsibility, safe sex and respect should be included.
Will it make the kids run around like sex fiends? I sincerely doubt it. WHen sex is treated as a big, naughty issue that isnt spoken of, kids will tend to seek it out even more I think.
Separation of the sexes in the extreme IMHO is also somewhat detrimental.
Abuse and assault take place in every society whether conservative or not. But when a society condones these actions (ie., rape is typically considered to be the gals fault in pak) then it can become more of an issue. It also seems to me that homosexial pedophilia is more common over there. And if you think about it, the guys are more comfortable with guys because the females are hidden away from them, they may become more comfortable with males because thats what they know. And they get away with it very easily over there. Here (in USA) there is that problem also but these predators are hunted down and vigorously prosecuted to the extent of the law so the predators have to be much more careful.
I do not know how on earth have you got this idea that rape in Pakistan is considered a gals fault. And this not the first time that i am hearing this from a westerner or an ABCD.
Have u heard any guppy here saying this? How much first hand experience of Pakistan do u have?
I agree that sexual offenders are prosecuted much more in USA, but then that is true of "every crime". We have a lawless society, i cannot but admit this, but, its not that girlz r blamed for everything.
**1-Do you think talking more about sexuality will bring about healthier behaviour among youth or will it do the opposite?
2-Are abuse/assaults result of a conservative society?
3-Is our society right or wrong in not talking about sexuality openly?**
Depends upon what you mean by "talking". If you're speaking of healthy conversation with an emphasis on religion and not culture, or science and not culture or both science/religion and not culture, then sure. If you're talking about immature "talking" or misinformed "talking", then no. Case in point - have educated individuals in society (doctors, nurses, teachers, etc) teach sex education to teenagers who have hit puberty. But having your local uneducated illiterate imam telling people about sex will be of no avail. He'll just tell them about how they're all going to hell if they have sex. You can't have that sorta talk from an uneducated person who doesn't know the first thing about science and reproduction.
Yes, if the society is too closed. People want to have sex. Its a biological need. If people in society cannot accept that, then there will be abuse. Because people will do things just to rebel, and then hurt one another. Sex involves 2 people (at least), and so obviously, people will get hurt by this abuse. Interestingly, Islam accepts the sexual need of an individual and openly addresses it and encourages dialogue on it. Meanwhile, Pakistani culture does not. So, why the discrepency?
Wrong. Again, people need to accept that sex is a biological need. Also a psychological need as well. And they need to respect that. That's the biggest thing. Its not gunnah to talk about sex, which is what Pakistani culture will teach you. Its gunnah to perform sex and break the rules.
But how will people know the rules and understand them and respect them if there is no dialogue about them?
Icon, I apologize if you have taken this as an insult, it was not intended that way. However, according to the law of the land in Pak, if a gal is raped, she must prove it by providing 3 witnesses. I have never heard of a rape anywhere on the planet that had 3 witnesses! If a gal is seen wearing less than full hijaab, she is viewed as a slut and "deserves" what she gets. Gals who wear jeans are ogled, groped and given nasty comments. Yes, that happens to one degree or another no matter where on the planet you go. But over there, its more accepted as being the fault of the gal. Have seen this firsthand and have family and friends over there who quite agree.....so if I am quite wrong about this, apologies....but then again, I truly think I am not so very far off-base....
1- Does an Imam or lets say a religious women really have no idea about sexuality or physiology at all? Well, they may not know what is the type of epithelium lining the ovary but they do know how things work.
There are many Islamic rulings about sexual aspects of life and the girlz pretty much know them in Pakistan, like, cycles for example, every girl ( to my knowledge) is educated bout it, by their mother or elder sister. Those who experience problems go to a doctor.
If an Imam tells that sex is Gunnah and don't do it, and a gori says say NO to your boyfriend, how do these two people affect the body physiology differently? Afterall, both are rejecting the physiological need.
2- People want to have sex in every society, blaming abuse on closed society in this case, u have taken up the position of Mulla, who says uncovered meat is responsible for rape. BOTH CASES THE OFFENDER GETS AN EXCUSE.
3- People DO talk about sex in Pakistan but not openly, no one refuses that sex IS a need, but is taking up the western style of sex education solve the problem? like a bunch of boyz and girlz sitting together an viewing a jar of condoms?
However, i am all for telling the young kidz about abuse and to avoid it.
There was a questionarre distributed in Islamabd school asking kidz if they have ever been abused. It was later withdrawn bcoz of protest from religious people, that i felt was absurd.
1-The offenders in Mukhtaraan Mai case were caught, tried and punished appropriately,
2-overwhelming public support was with Mukhtaraan mai
3-there was a shameful misrepresentation of events by media, who portrayed that a religious meeting ordered the rape, pathetic liars, what happened was the all offenders belonged to same family, who got together, charged her brother of illicit relations with their girl and then went did teh shameful act.
So this example does not hold ground.
As far the rape laws in Pakistan, i agree that they need to be changed.
Their death sentence was overturned wasn’t it? Is that “appropriate punishment”? Really now? Going by the majority of ppl on this forum, its hard to believe there was much support for Mukhtara Mai. She says so herself (in a new article) that “I’m an…honorable lady among people who live abroad. But in my society, I don’t have my honor, it’s a war of survival for me.” Oh and the “if you dress liek a hoe, u deserve to get raped.” have you not seen the last two-three threads on women being pieces of meat? coz that was the basic sentiment there. So yeah, a girl usually IS blamed if she’s molested/raped, for “giving him a chance” or “inviting it” upon herself.
As for the other questions, I find it hard to believe a “religious woman” with a masters had no knowledge abt what happens between husband and wife. Either she was faking it (to show she’s still “innocent”), or he was BS-ing. Religion doesnt stop someone from pursuing such knowledge, esp if they’re getting married, so I dont believe that "religious"ness excuses ignorance.
I think there’s a time and a place to educate your kids abt sex. Like others said, explain to daughters what will happen to them BEFORE it actually happens, don’t let them find out what a period is WHEN they get their first period :no: And as htey get older, explain to them things like STDs and pregnancy and HIV. I mean at some point you have to explain WHY something is wrong and forbidden, when it comes to certain things, like sex, just saying “Because it is wrong, that’s it” doenst really work when they get older, they need to know why its wrong and why Allah has forbidden it. Ther’es nothing wrong with giving raesons, but for some reason ppl usually think it’s akin to blasphemy, i.e., “No we dont need to give a reason, its haram because its haram, questioning is wrong”-attitude. Also, as uncomfortable as it is, parents (or otther educated, trusted adults) should be the first ones to explain to their kids about sex and everything related to it. We’re not talking about traditional western-safe-sex education, wherein you can do watever you want, screw whomever you want as long as it’s “safe” and u use a condom but just explaining basic things. You dont want y our kids getting their information from television and the kids on the playground do ya
I wonder if lack of sex education is the only reason of rapes in Pakistan (as portrayed above in many posts), then why rapes occur in US where every kid holds masters degree in sex right out of the box? In my opinion Pakistan is lacking (and what US have) is a working justice system. You take justice system out of equation in US, and you will see more rapes in US than Pakistan. If you punish ppl for the crimes they commit, it becomes example for others and crime rate automatically goes down.
As far as sex education is concerned, I am for it but I am not in favor of having sex education classes @ schools where they stress on “safe sex” than any other thing. Mom is a good teacher for daughter and Dad for sons. Parents should talk to their children at right age about the changes they should expect in coming days and tell them that ITS TOTALLY AND ABSOLUTLY NORMAL and not abnormal to have all these changes. They should encourage children to talk to them if they have any question than anyone else.
very interesting story posted there by this guy whos wife refused him sex and continues to do so 2 and a half years into marriage.lol.I am surprised he did'nt divorce her or got her medically examined...may be her sex hormones are very low.or may be she's just a psycho as is the case with so many women.
Talking about sex never helps, it is the need that must be supress among youngsters. In west, the parents think that our kid knows best and just like that they loose their virginity at 14. I like our Desi culture and how they deal with sex related issues. The west think it is healthy but in true sense they are promoting an unhealthy and immoral practice.
They do like to insult our thinking and cultural by using rape issues, I think it is denegrating. No one in any society likes rape or support for that matter but there are people who love to twist and turn in order to give a hint that we support and believe that it is woman's fault. The fact is rape is a difficult issue in every society.
Even though we are thrid world, we do not have to deal with unwanted pregnancies and kids having sex in early age in majority.
I think sexual abuse may be more widespread. It seems like everyone I know well from Pakistan has a story about a cousin or man in the street.
It's really important to educate children about this - early and often. They should be told about inappropriate touching, and it should be clearly and simply explained where people can and cannot touch. They should also be told clearly that if they are inappropriately touched they MUST tell a parent.
As far as sexual education, the bulk of it should be at home, but it should be age appropriate and detailed. Female or male reproductive cycles should be explained so that teenagers know what is happening to their bodies and why. Diseases should be clearly explained so that teens know the consequences of disobeying Allah's commands.
It's really important to educate children about this - early and often. They should be told about inappropriate touching, and it should be clearly and simply explained where people can and cannot touch. They should also be told clearly that if they are inappropriately touched they MUST tell a parent.
As far as sexual education, the bulk of it should be at home, but it should be age appropriate and detailed. Female or male reproductive cycles should be explained so that teenagers know what is happening to their bodies and why. Diseases should be clearly explained so that teens know the consequences of disobeying Allah's commands.
ManWith A Plan, each culture has its ups and downs, just because we dont have lots of unwanted pregnancies and the majority of our middle schoolers don't engage in early sex, that doesnt mean that our culture is absolutley perfect and that we don't have problems at all. Of course these things are all wrong but its not really fair to say that only one culture is bad while the other is great.
ANyway, I think rape is a differnet issue altogether. Although it is the act of sex, lust is not the usual motivation, the motive is usually violence, money, etc. Ever heard of "revenge" rapes? Gangs will also use rape as an initiation rite ofr some girls. As for leering/ogling, you should teach your daughters that yes it's important to be modest BUT also teach your sons that they do NOT have the right to stare or make comments or touch another girl just because she's not covered properly.
Decent, I don't know if you know but lately, lots of schools have been stressing "abstinence-only" programs in publicly funded high schools because they too are fed up by the "anything goes as long as you use a condom" ideology that's been taught.
Sex education is completely necessary. It is biological- it is a part of nature. It is not something to be ashamed about. However, teaching or not teaching a person something doesn't mean that they will do or not do something. Personally, I would rather have my child be familiar with all points of view (INCLUDING birth control)- because even though I may not want her/him to have sex at all until marriage and will educate her/him about how this is a smart choice I would feel much better knowing that if she/he did decide to be intimate with someone they would at least have the brains to be protected.
Also, I'm not so sure that most desi kids lose their virginity when they're 14. Granted, some do, but I find that the majority lose it around 17 (through many lose it several years later, and more and more desis are opting to wait until they are in a very serious relationship/married). I don't think very many American parents would be pleased with their 14 year old having sex, and would probably vehemently discourage it. And many have stable, meaningful, loving relationships with those they do engage in sex with- many would argue that some level of physical intimacy is necessary in order to know whether you truly are compatable with someone on that level. The older you are the more maturely you handle it, generally. That's definetely -not- saying its okay for these youngsters to be engaging in sex, because its not. They're simply not emotionally prepared to be dealing with the consequences of their actions
:no: And as htey get older, explain to them things like STDs and pregnancy and HIV. I mean at some point you have to explain WHY something is wrong and forbidden, when it comes to certain things, like sex, just saying “Because it is wrong, that’s it” doenst really work when they get older, they need to know why its wrong and why Allah has forbidden it. Ther’es nothing wrong with giving raesons, but for some reason ppl usually think it’s akin to blasphemy, i.e., “No we dont need to give a reason, its haram because its haram, questioning is wrong”-attitude. Also, as uncomfortable as it is, parents (or otther educated, trusted adults) should be the first ones to explain to their kids about sex and everything related to it. We’re not talking about traditional western-safe-sex education, wherein you can do watever you want, screw whomever you want as long as it’s “safe” and u use a condom 
but just explaining basic things. You dont want y our kids getting their information from television and the kids on the playground do ya