So you are saying the Sikhs would be better served trusting the Hindu majority India and their sense of justice and system of law governing minorities than that of Pakistan. That they didnt realize our inevitable surge of hate, they were at fault for trusting the Muslims majority of Pakistan to ever grow into an all accommodating and tolerant nation(or grow back into).
Yes, thats exactly what I am saying.
We have a Sikh as PM, Sikhs are amongst the most prosperous groups in India. Its foolish to even compare the condition of Sikhs in India & Pakistan.
Was there a requirement for all non-muslims to leave Pakistan that you issued, that I and most of the country is unaware of ?
Many Sikhs and Hindu families left Pakistan in 1947. Was that due to any "requirement" ? No, it was because they knew what the future would hold for them in an Islamic country. These families did not leave (for whatever reason). Now they are just paying the price for that decision.
Whats so difficult to understand ?
Yes, thats exactly what I am saying.
We have a Sikh as PM, Sikhs are amongst the most prosperous groups in India. Its foolish to even compare the condition of Sikhs in India & Pakistan.
You are obviously oblivious to the massacre of Sikhs after Indiras murder, they were butchered in their thousands.
You are obviously oblivious to the massacre of Sikhs after Indiras murder, they were butchered in their thousands.
That was political and had nothing to do with them being a religious minority. Lets stick to the topic here.
That was political and had nothing to do with them being a religious minority. Lets stick to the topic here.
It was religious, they were butchered because they were sikhs, got it.
Yes, thats exactly what I am saying.
We have a Sikh as PM, Sikhs are amongst the most prosperous groups in India. Its foolish to even compare the condition of Sikhs in India & Pakistan.
What is foolish is to forget is that they lived for 62 years in peace with the people indigenous to the area, and a relatively recent militant phenomenon, that may even have clandestine support from the Indian agencies, has done this injustice to these people.
This militant phenomenon has prompted wide disgust on this forum and in Pakistan, and their actions are dis owned in both places.
You cannot use this to advance your own preconceived notions about the viability of Sikhs in your country India, which has its own opponents as you can see in the previous post.
Lets stick to the topic which is the condemnation of this action by a rogue group that the Pakistan establishment is currently fighting in many separate districts.
What is foolish is to forget is that they lived for 62 years in peace with the people indigenous to the area, and a relatively recent militant phenomenon, that may even have clandestine support from the Indian agencies, has done this injustice to these people.
This militant phenomenon has prompted wide disgust on this forum and in Pakistan, and their actions are dis owned in both places.
You cannot use this to advance your own preconceived notions about the viability of Sikhs in your country India, which has its own opponents as you can see in the previous post.
Lets stick to the topic which is the condemnation of this action by a rogue group that the Pakistan establishment is currently fighting in many separate districts.
There have been incidents in the past where Sikh temples (gurudwaras) have been taken over and converted to mosques. There have been numerous incidents of Hindus/Sikhs being forced to convert. Stop pretending that this is the first such incident in the last 62 years.
And I am not using this to advance my own "preconceived notions". You brought up the issue of Sikhs in India, not me :)
So you are saying the Sikhs would be better served trusting the Hindu majority India and their sense of justice and system of law governing minorities than that of Pakistan. That they didnt realize our inevitable surge of hate, they were at fault for trusting the Muslims majority of Pakistan to ever grow into an all accommodating and tolerant nation(or grow back into).
There have been incidents in the past where Sikh temples (gurudwaras) have been taken over and converted to mosques. There have been numerous incidents of Hindus/Sikhs being forced to convert. Stop pretending that this is the first such incident in the last 62 years.
Yes, the Pakistan Government was unable to foresee the threat to our Sikh citizens in Orakzai, just as the Indian Government was unable to foresee or prevent tragic attacks on their Sikh citizens in New Dehli in 1984 or the massacre of Muslims in gujrat in 2002, including prominent Muslim politicians. I am sure India only wishes to guarantee security to its citizens some dark day when a mob gathers, but practically usually fails. The difference is that when bad things happen in India hundreds of people die.
There are sizable Sikh populations in Okara, kamalia, Lahore, Hasan Abdul that I know of and others in West Punjab that I dont know about, all of whom have been living in the country for 62 years in peace. My class fellow is the Director of the Lahore fort and his official residence shares a wall with the gurdwara in lahore that has hundreds of visitors any given day all of whom pass through with out threat or fear.
You are obviously oblivious to the massacre of Sikhs after Indiras murder, they were butchered in their thousands.
This is usual with the Indian nation. When Indra Singh was murdered by her Sikh assistants, her own community(Sikh) got massacred by the BJP people- right wing extremist. Sikh wanted a separate state- they wanted to bring old Punjab which was the one they had under Mr. Ranjeet Singh- from Peshawar to Patna and Indian PM refused to give that hence there was separatist movement.
Before writing pleasw correct or update your informations. Firstly it was Indira Gandhi and not Indira Singh, secondly the sikhs were massacred in Delhi by congress goons and not BJP. What rubbish you are writing about history. Please don,t post immature letters.
Yes, the Pakistan Government was unable to foresee the threat to our Sikh citizens in Orakzai, just as the Indian Government was unable to foresee or prevent tragic attacks on their Sikh citizens in New Dehli in 1984 or the massacre of Muslims in gujrat in 2002, including prominent Muslim politicians. I am sure India only wishes to guarantee security to its citizens some dark day when a mob gathers, but practically usually fails. The difference is that when bad things happen in India hundreds of people die.
There are sizable Sikh populations in Okara, kamalia, Lahore, Hasan Abdul that I know of and others in West Punjab that I dont know about, all of whom have been living in the country for 62 years in peace. My class fellow is the Director of the Lahore fort and his official residence shares a wall with the gurdwara in lahore that has hundreds of visitors any given day all of whom pass through with out threat or fear.
There are quite a few flaws in your analogy -
- Firstly, no one asked Sikhs (1984) & Muslims (2002) to pay a tax for living in their own country just because they belonged to a different religion.
- 1984 & 2002 were riots triggered by certain events (Indira Gandhi's assassination and burning of Hindu pilgrims in Godhra). Its foolish to compare that with Taliban barbarism against non-Muslims (kafirs).
- The Pakistan govt surrendered to Taliban. I am surprised that you say that they were unable to foresee the threat to minorities. The whole world knows how the Taliban demolished temples and other religious structures in Afghanistan.
- The minorities in India can fight elections from anywhere. Do Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan have that right ? No, they have certain reserved seats and they can contest only from there. Token representation to put up a pretence of tolerance !!
You can keep pretending that minorities have it really good in Pakistan, but the fact is that just by virtue of Pakistan being an Islamic state minorities are second class citizens.
The Talibans have occupied the property of many residents of the area, in addition to government buidings. once the unrest settles down these will be returned to the original owners.
In addition Im sure the Pakistan government would set out a framework to provide restitution to all the innocent people affected by the rogue militant group.
There are quite a few flaws in your analogy -
[LIST]
[li]Firstly, no one asked Sikhs (1984) & Muslims (2002) to pay a tax for living in their own country just because they belonged to a different religion.
[/li]
Yes they were spared the tax, instead they were just plain murdered on the spot.
Living in Orakzai, which in addition to its other features is also a Tax-free area, the Sikhs actually have never been taxed by the government. Also what the militant element has done is not tax, its extortion, bhatta, jagga tax, badmashi etc. Its not the government asking for money, its not any religious organization, its a criminal act.
[li]1984 & 2002 were riots triggered by certain events (Indira Gandhi's assassination and burning of Hindu pilgrims in Godhra). Its foolish to compare that with Taliban barbarism against non-Muslims (kafirs).
[/li]
The Taliban barbarism is not directed towards non-muslims in particular. While they they only asked for money from the Sikh families they slaughtered Frontier constabulary & police officers and moderate locals.
[li]The minorities in India can fight elections from anywhere. Do Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan have that right ? No, they have certain reserved seats and they can contest only from there. Token representation to put up a pretence of tolerance !!
[/li]
Minorities have the additional right to separate representation but can also vote in the general elections. So they have 2 votes compared to one for Muslims.(one of the good things done by Mush.) So its much beyond tolerance; Its twice the representation. Reserved seats are to ensure actual direct representation in addition to the general voting rights.
Re: Taliban raze houses of Sikhs in Orakzai
^^ can you provide a proof (any link to news/govt site) that can confirm the twice the representation rule in Pak
The official site is “under construction” Election Commission of Pakistan
But here are some links, Ill look for some more as well
Most of these links are by non-muslim minority rights groups (only Hindu, christian & Sikh) containing lots of other information as well, but they all refer to “minorities winning the right to vote and run in general elections, and not only in reserved seats.” The biggest Ahmadiya group of course does not accept their disputed status as a minority to begin with so further discussion of minority rights is void.
But here are some links, Ill look for some more as well
The Hindu : Equal voting status for Pak. minorities
UCIP
rediff.com: Pakistan scraps separate electorate for minorities
UNHCR | Refworld | Chronology for Hindus in Pakistan
Pakistan Christian Post