Taleban

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21

Kaka and Maddy

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

The Taliban, with due respects to their sincerity and attachment with their understanding of Islam, seem to have an approach toward the implementation of Islam, which is significantly different from the one which I hold to be correct.

I think it may be an idea to not really pass judgement and to comment on the referred pieces of legislation which you have referred to, as they are only many of the secondary effects of some of the basic differences, which you may also eventually find with the Taliban’s approach toward the understanding and implementation of Islam.

But that is not to say that I am an expert on the Taliban.

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They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

22

maani

  1. They brought together 7 different Mujahideen groups that were gone wild after the Soviet war.

  2. They brought security and stability to Afghans and minorities.

  3. They cut off 80% of the world Opium production on which UN spends hundreds of billions of dollars each year in one season. That will not only help the world but will dramatically help Pakistan which have been suffering over a decade now. There is more, but that should be enough for now.

Pilot25

Most of the pictures you see are taken by media now days which is allowed as a form of necessity. There are some Talibs that take their pictures but secretly or among known friends, but if they get caught doing it they are punished. A good example of what you are questioning will be Mulla Omar (the supreme leader of Taliban) who have not allowed himself to be photographed etc. after 1994.

*Mr. Partypooper *

They need to be reason with not critiqued. That’s what they have been receiving from the world, if the Islamic World is only going to point fingers and judge, then there be no progress. Like the budda figures, no one could provide them anything which ruled out their actions. And like the extinction of poppies in Afghanistan, when some Muslims succeeded in convincing the Talibans. :)

isloo_ki_anarkali

They don’t stink, you know why? Because most of them pray five times a day and in order to pray graciously you do what? Clean yourself! So yeah, they are much cleaner then most of the people you know.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

[This message has been edited by yOuNgBrAt (edited June 13, 2001).]

23

i agree that they have done some good for afghanistan in the past, but then again any group would have achieved the same after the war. i just dont like them for their arrogance, when the world is looking for excuses to ban the minimal aid they receive, they seem to do things that are really hurting their people. in a country where hundreds of children die of sleeping in the cold, they are running around destroying statues and bakeries. Having grown up in a war-torn country, they don't have the power to reason.
Also, they only brought 7 smaller mujahideen groups together, not the major groups from the north. drought and migration has as much to do with the decrease in opium production as the Taleban, dont give them more credit than is due.

24

Excellent! Im very happy and impressed to see that my comment was taken in stride... To be honest, I was expecting to be attacked for my comment/beliefs...but Im impressed with your comments everyone! Good job!

I'll be the first to admit that my views about the Talaban ARE as a result of the reports I see on cnn, and newspapers, etc.

Werent they the ones that ordered the demolition of priceless statues of the Buddha a few months ago? Citing the "unislamic" nature of statues??? I mean, its one thing to WORSHIP statues (and Bhuddists, btw, do NOT worship the statue of the Bhuddah) and quite another to have one of the oldest statue of the bhuddah destroyed... That was a shame, and I was ashamed to call myself muslim then, the same religion as the talaban...I was disappointed in them.

But Kaka-atom-bomb, klashnikov, etc...I will read the sites you have mentioned and try to get an unbiased oppinion on the talaban...

thanks!

feelin' frisky?

25

And to top it off. Some more comments from the Khan.

Imran A Bukhari, with due respect, RAWA.ORG site is owned by people who basically had communist ideologies. There were many atrocities against Afghan Civilians and Women but the people at RAWA never raised a finger at anybody. Now that the Taleban have come, and the situation is better than previous times, they are shouting here and there. They take pictures of Pre Taleban times, put logos on them, and then put them online saying that Taleban are doing this and that. Their hatred for Taleban is due to the fact that when Taleban came, they closed almost 40 brothel houses in Afghanistan, majority in Kabul and most of the money from these sick places were going to Rawa people and the communist forces. So that means that when No Brothel Houses, NO MONEY FOR RAWA and their supporters. So that's why they are against Taleban. YOur name "suggests" that you are shia. I have nothing against Shias but one complain that they are very anti taleban for "no" particular reason at all. (Or you could tell me why).

As far as RAWA's contents on Taleban are concerned. Let me deal with them individually.
Beheading = Islam says that if a person commmits a crime, he has to be punished. And there are certain procedures for that. If a person murders, the victims family members have the right to take revenge from the murderer (through channels of government). For Murder, it is beheading. Unless the victim pardons the murderer.

Cutting of Hands = If you steal, Islam says your hands should be cut. Anybody who is against cutting of hands of theives is actually against rules of Islam and thus consequently Islam itself. The reason that this strict punishment is there so that people are prevented from committing the "smallest" of crimes. if you say that don't punish theives who commit small crimes, then that suggests to a theive that it is allirght to commit small crimes like it. All forms of theft should be punished equally.

Women = Basic right of a woman is that her dignity and honour should be kept in tact. That has been restored by Taleban. Name one rape case today in Afghanistan (under Taleban). You will find none. Women working in Afghanistan had basically nothing to do apart from being used as sex objects in work places. You are not Afghan so therefore you don't know. Taleban have stopped this. They are favoring Women to do Jobs. But only in those quarters where they are "NEEDED".

There is also a lot of crap on RAWA site in fact too much CRAP and any person with a sane mind can clearly judge that these people are propagating propaganda.

Taleban - Soldiers of Allah

26

Can we hear from any actual Afghanis here? Klashnikov_Khan, are you an Afghani? In fact all you people making arguments for and against the Taleban, are any of you Afghanis or have been to Afghanistan for a long enough period of time to determine for yourselves what the truth is?

Klashnikov says that the RAWA organization is/was funded by brothels. Is there any factual basis to this comment, or is Klashnikov engaging in typical mud slinging that we Pakistanis are oh so well known to participate in when we can't come up with any intelligent arguments?

The fact is that Afghanistan and the Taleban are shrouded in such secrecy that for outsiders to figure out what is really going on there is impossible.

I agree that crime should be punished, and in accordance with Shariah, we see more than enough graphic images of the Taleban hanging people, chopping off hands and heads, etc, but have any of you stopped and thought for a second, who determines whether one is guilty or not? Is that part fair, is the trial (lack of a better word) conducted in accordance to Shariah. Or does some maulvi who doesn't know $hit about $hit comes and points at who HE thinks is guilty and seals the person's fate?

Anyway, I'm sure you see where I'm going with this, I don't want to start on this topic, I will end up writing a freakin book.

27

Brother Ahmad,

You are correct. Those who are not afghanis are just relying on hearsay and then concluding about things relating to Afghanistan and Taleban which they don't even know of.

I am not an Afghani citizen but Pakistani. But I am Wazir and we have family business on both sides. Therefore I have travelled to some extent in afghanistan. Furthermore, my cousin is in ranks of Taleban and I get much of my information from him as well. And last of all, in our local masjid, which is actually in side a maddrassa, i see recruits going to the taleban side quite frequently and the Imam Sahib informs the gatherings of people about the going abouts over there.

RAWA is not founded by brothel houses. RAWA is a communist organization which has links to Dostum's communist "gilam jam" militia. They are truly Anti-Islamic. Apart from the pictures and videos that they have on their site rawa.org, some of their comments and views given by them regarding Islam truly depict their understanding of Islam. The brothel houses closed by Taleban in Afghanistan, the people who were ejected thus joined RAWA thus making it more stronger. Before this happened, RAWA was just any other organisation. And since the west is constantly flooding in weapons and money to the Northern Alliance, (not just in military but also to help them in their propaganda) therefore RAWA also gets quite a big fare of money for publishing and propagating propaganda against Taleban. (They condemn both Taleban and former "Mujahideen" commanders but doesn't say a bit about Dostum's communist militia on their site which actually clears some things out)

I am not doing Mud Slinging against RAWA. The main problem in Afghanistan started due to conflict between two big divisions in society. The elite living in the cities (who embraced communism) and the rural society (who were very strict in following Islamic and their traditional customs). After war started, the elite (those who could afford or those who had brains) all went out and ran to difvferent parts of the globe. Those who were left behind were the rural lot who established their own form of government under the form of Taleban and they are quite happy with it, unlike the home sick communist lot who in order to come back and wreak havoc again, have resorted to this propaganda campaign against the same rural forces of the country. Keeping this in mind, you can understand that much of the things i have said is not mud slinging but actually facts backed up by my know how of people who have actually been there and from simple logic applied from collection of resources like bbc, news organisations and of organisations like @rawa@ itself.

The taleban are shrouded in secrecy because of lack of media projection on their behalf. Just like the Jamaat al Tableegh, they refuse to have media projection in common media apart from some magazines and newspapers that they have which don't have big coverage at all. Due to this lack of propagation on their behalf, their enemies have the obvious edge regarding control of news coming out from Afghanistan.

And about the Taleban ranks and their policy of governance, remember that the power does not lie "only" in the hands of Mullah Omar sahib. He can't give judgements and edicts on his own behalf. There is a council of elders and mufti and ulema karam. During their governance of the country, many aspects come around which they have not included in their "you can say constitution". Such problems are forwarded to the Islamic Council "shura" where hundreds of Ulema Karam and scholars from Afghanistan and some outside scholars as well give a judgement on that problem and ways to tackle it and enfore it. There are difference of opinons, but once finalised, only then Mullah Omar sahib issues the edict. There are shariat courts which deal with things of who to punish if they commit crime and how to punish. It is not matter of punishing those who they hate. The decisions are fast and quick because their is no logic in extending petitions of people involved in cases of murder or theft as happens in the outside world.

You said that it is not our duty to determine who is guilty or not because it all is in the hands of Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'la. Allah SWT has given guidelines to follow via Prophet PBUH. If we leave everything on Allah SWT, then that is completely and utter stupidity.

Let there be no doubt that the trial of the criminal is truly under the principles of Shariah as their have been cases of Taleban punishing and lashing their own militia members as well for crimes such as negligence.

And last of all, people have this ego problem that if a person has studied in a top ranking ENGLISH language institution in some Top English University or WESTERN University, then he is utterly civilised and knows every kind of know how. And that if some body has studied religious studies then that person is an ignorant fool who doesn't know a "****" abiout anytyhing and just label him as an ignorant and bigoted Mullah.

I think you people get the idea of what I am trying to say.

Ahmad brother sorry if what I said hurt you or anybody else. But everybody has to be careful regarding issuing blatant statements regarding respected Ulama Karam "no matter what school or sect they belong to".

Taleban - Soldiers of Allah

28

Hurt me? On the contrary KK, you are the first individual who hasn't shot his mouth off after being somewhat criticized. You have presented a very valid points and arguments, I appreciate that. I have to do a lot of research and reading before I can form a definitive opinion on the Taleban, but you have definitely helped, thanks.

29

Salaam,

At last! Comments from a person who has actually been to Afghanistan!

It is clear that the reason the Afghanis are being targeted is because the won't give Osama Bin Laden up. The world is scared of Islam and all it reprepesents.

I'll reiterate what i've said before. Afghanistan and the Taleban may not be perfect, but it's the closest thing we've got to an Islamic State and it's a very good base to work upon.

wasalaam