Taleban apologists...

Re: Taleban apologists...

This is just a hogwash, like I mentioned above the military/government has carried out operations throughout FATA at their will (didnt feel the need to ask the apologists), now they dont want to carry our operations in NWA so blame the apologists. Ironic isnt it? Zardari after Malala incident categorically said that there would be no operation there as its the election year.

Anyways, the military can keep on carrying out the operations for the next 100 years, nothing will come out of it, until TTP's command and control is intact.

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Pakistan is the only country in the world where the 'apologists' are blamed for the security situation of the country, and not the 'nincompoops' who have the security apparatus in their hands.

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^ Yes. It is called passing the buck..or let's say the hot potato of responsibility.

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Should we really blame the conspiracy theorists when the biggest one is the interior minister himself. He sees the involvement of foreign hands in every terror act in the country but doesn't find it important enough to share that with his country men or the alleged country.

I remember a few times, US ambassadors were stopped in Lahore and Peshawar and conspiracy theories (in media) were ripe of them being black water agents but no one from the government quarters found the urge to deny them categorically. Same was the case of Raymond Davis's calls to TTP. It seems the establishment itself has kept the situation muddy, and now they can blame their failures on others (apologists).

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They do topi drama. They arent serious about taking on the Taliban. If they were serious, they would have gone to all out war in not just Bajaur, South Waziristan etc, but also in terrorism central, N Wazirisitan.

The fact is, they dont want to fight the Taliban, they just want to pretend they dont exist. Even in Swat, remember how they gave them control? It was only AFTER they realized the Talibaboons were going to invade the adjoining areas that they decided to move in.

No body is asking apologists. They literally dont seem to be asking anyone as they have already decided they will never protect the country against these badmash. The apologists are a separate issue that only muddy the waters further.

Re: Taleban apologists...

EVERYONE blames the Pak establishment. They blame the Army, they blame the govt, they blame the nut mullahs... The apologist simply are the ones that let these people get away with their nonsense.

Apologists are guilty for the very reason i gave you. They complicate the situation by producing contradictions and confusing the issue in the minds of the Public. Why was the momentum not carried forward after the attack on Malala? Because apologists for the Taliban starting adding "buts" to every sentance. Sure what they did was wrong BUT...

And no, Pakistan is not the only country where apologists are blamed. They apologists, the people who enable terrorism are blamed everywhere they exist. They are by definition part of the problem. Next you will tell me the liars and con men are also unfairly blamed for the problem.

Re: Taleban apologists…

^Speaking of Apologists.. :hehe:

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Well like I mentioned earlier, the interior minister himself is confusing the people, either he should present proofs of foreign involvement or keep quiet.

When foreign diplomats are stopped, and news is circulated by the media that they are black water agents and have pictures of sensitive locations in their possession, why no one from the military or government feels the urge to refute it? What can be said about this?

The matter of the fact is that the military doesn't want to carry our operations in NWA due to the following reasons:

1) Their bets in Afghanistan for which they have tolerated 40000 people killed within the country

2) There are two main tribes in Waziristan (Wazirs and Mohmands). They have already lost support of Mohmands, if they do the same with Wazirs they know they will lose all of Waziristan as both tribes will use Eastern Afghanistan as the base to attack the forces and they won't find any place to stand on.

All of Pakistan's war on terror is based on a weak foundation, they should have gained the support of concerned tribes to route out the terrorists but instead they punished whole tribes. With the result TTP became stronger instead of weaker, if they use the same tactics in NWA I can guarantee you the military will lose there (and the military also knows that) hence the excuses (and blaming the consensus/apologists).

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It's a true synopsis of the whole tragedy. But we are continuously living in the denial mood. The only way to turn the tables on the TTP is to fortify tribals and give them full control of their regions with monetary, administrative and security assistance from the state. The key is that the less military footprints on the region, the better.

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When the public outcry against Taliban is high, military is forced to act against them. Swat is the best example of this (What was Imran's stance wrt Swat?). Taliban themselves feel the heat when public and media is unanimous in voicing their anger against them such as in the case of Malala. Taliban apologists are the enablers that help the Taliban by providing them the necessary moral support.

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^ During the past 5 years, the military has been carrying out operations where they want to without consulting anyone. They dont want to do the same in NWA therefore the excuses.

Re: Taleban apologists…

This article makes sense vis a vis Pakistan military’s reluctance for operations in NWA.

Profiling our North Waziristan policy – The Express Tribune

**Predictably, the North Waziristan operation has been near-permanently shelved. While this may not be music to the ‘kill em all’ school of thought in Pakistan, this is a reality that is likely to hold for months to come, barring of course, a devastating attack on say a nuclear installation or other such target of high value. Small scale operations and tit for tat retributory strikes may happen according to the scale of activities of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), but there is little or no possibility of the present-day deployment in the agency to become a war formation and clear out the Taliban from their strongest of the remaining strongholds.
**
Leaving aside the emotive side of the debate about North Waziristan, in which proponents take absolutist positions for and against the option of military operation, the anticlimax to the recent hype about the possibility of the army striking hard in these areas does raise the all important question: What exactly has the army been trying to do in North Waziristan? Having lost thousands of precious lives and after spending billions of rupees since 2004 in Fata and the adjoining areas, why has it consistently baulked at pulling down the final fortress of a ferocious foe? This question becomes even more intriguing when raised against the backdrop of the army high command’s well-thought out conclusion that all the attacks on Pakistan’s strategic assets that have emanated from this agency have been funded and supervised by Delhi. For a force that is considered India-centric, a do-nothing approach to the costly conspiracies being hatched against the country’s vital security interests shows exceptional restraint, if not stupidity.

The answer to this question partly lies in the fact that Pakistan never had a coherent and cohesive policy towards all of Fata. It is certainly true of the military operations, each of which was carried out as a pretty much stand alone effort, with limited objectives, without much consideration for its implications for the next phase in another agency. While all along, the Taliban remained a mobile threat that swiftly moved from one end of the region to the other, aided and sometimes spearheaded by the Central Asian stock of militants, the army’s assaults even in their most awesome form avoided stretching the forces thin and chasing the militants in a cat and mouse game. These operations were unlike a swift race on a hundred metre track. These were more or less conducted like high-altitude climbers chalk out their slow ascent, one peak at a time and a long rest before eyeing the next one with a different set of tactics.

A natural result of this policy was that as the military kept on moving forward cleansing the territory of Fata, the Taliban steadily dispersed to different locations for regrouping, till they ran out of space and got entrenched in North Waziristan. It is correct to say that the army overlooked the TTP’s deadly potential in North Waziristan because it was too preoccupied with consolidating its gains in South Waziristan, Bajaur, and Swat besides battling hordes of fighters in Mohmand Agency and Orakzai. Consistent deployments to prevent Taliban from re-entering the cleared areas and ongoing battles (some of them have been least reported in the media even though these have been exceptionally bloody with high casualty rates) in smaller theatres were a core consideration for the army to avoid getting embroiled in North Waziristan.

Another factor that perpetuated this dithering was the peculiar power realities of this agency. Unlike South Waziristan, where the army had little local support primarily because of the dominance of the Mehsuds, in the North Hafiz Gul Bahadur was not at all inclined towards TTP’s anti-Pakistan activities. He, together with Maulvi Nazir from the Wazir belt in South Waziristan, also had been instrumental in containing and also evicting from their respective strongholds Uzbeks, the most dreadful demons of death. The army and the intelligence agencies counted on the hope that North Waziristan would remain an uncomfortable terrain for the TTP and the Waziris would prevent them from striking strong roots there. Much time was spent in assessing whether this hope was true or false. This was a policy of containment (of the TTP) through proxy (of local supporters). Clearly, this failed to yield results.

Uprooted from all over region, the steady stream of militants of all varieties soon overwhelmed the cities of North Waziristan rendering even strongmen like Hafiz Gulbahadur somewhat powerless. The motley crew of militants swept across the main areas and brought under control all the key arteries connecting key towns. This take over was swift and comprehensive. **For the army, it created a numbing complexity: it could only root out the newly-entrenched militants by hitting them in the cities with the real possibility of civilian casualties that could well run into thousands. This would also create another diaspora of displaced Waziri Pashtuns. It went against military logic and local dynamics to lose the hearts and minds of both the Mehsuds and the Wazirs. If that happened — the army calculated — both North and South Waziristan would erupt in a civil war — a nightmare for the country and a boon for the TTP. The army stalled in its tracks and held back its punches even as the TTP kidnapped and killed its soldiers, decapitated dead bodies and demanded ransom for the severed heads. These brutalities (which in scale and depth were horrendous and demoralising for a professional force) were weighed against the costs of a head-on assault on the TTP and it was decided that restraint was still a better course to follow.
**
**However, even when this patience was exhausted — after the Mehran base attack in Karachi last year —an elaborate plan was put in place to bite the bullet in North Waziristan, something else intervened. And this was the American factor combined with messy domestic politics.
**

Published in The Express Tribune, October 30th, 2012.

Re: Taleban apologists...

^Taliban apologists are in military as well. That military has been supporting some Taliban groups is well known. Taliban apologists in public and media enable Taliban supporters in military. Nothing operates in a vacuum.

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^ At the end of the day its the responsibility of the government and the military to ensure law and order situation. It would be laughable in any other country if blame is laid on the opposition for the failures of the government. We sadly do not have any counter insurgency/terrorism policy hence the issues. How would you explain the statements of Rahman Malik after each terror strike?

Re: Taleban apologists…

Big 2 to resist pressure over NWA operation | The Nation

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The military/government are to be blamed for not acting more purposefully (no N. Waziristan operation, no conviction and punishment of Taliban leaders etc., no anti terror strategy and laws) Taliban apologists are to be blamed for threatening civil disobedience etc. in case an operation is launched in N. Waziristan. They can't be absolved of their role in this bloody mess.

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^ how come the military is so scared of civil disobedience now? When they didnt virtually care in the remaining 6 agencies, dir and swat?

Fact is NWA operation would be very difficult, if the army antagonises both main tribes of waziristan it’ll be very difficult for them to win the war. The army is virtually using divide and rule in fata, conduct operations against one tribe by forming lashkars of another. A dangerous tactic, and hence the civil war kind of situation. Any operation that they need to undertake should be intelligence based and against specific targets, in which there should be minimum chances of collateral damage.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/08/26/news/national/nwa-jirga-opposes-military-action-threatens-migration-to-afghanistan/

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"Something else intervened..." ... It leaves you where you start the article. A disappointing end :(

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Here is the map of FATA.

There are two main tribes in NWA and SWA, Mohmands and Wazirs. At the moment the army is conducting operations against the Mohmands. The issue they have is the Wazirs straddle on both sides of the borders. Any full fledge operation in the agency will move the militants to the other side of the border (In Mohmand and Bajaur even though the tribes on the other side are not the same but still they have managed to set up their bases in Nuristan and Kunar and attack Pakistan from there) and start blazing their guns towards Pakistan. Secondly the military will lose their support base in the two agencies, hence making them more vulnerable for attacks. This would be a very tough operation, and needs a lot of thinking. Emotional launch of operation could result in a humiliating defeat. The army knows well and truly the challenges they have there.

Re: Taleban apologists…

Yes, speaking of apologists. :chai: