originally from central asia. prime movers behind the expansion of islam after about 900 a.d. a turk, mahmud of ghazni, helped to spread islam in south asia by invading and conquering north india. in west asia, seljuk turks took over from crumbling arab caliphate. seljuk turks helped to ensure that islam was the dominant religion in asia by defeating byzantine christians. ottoman turks built upon the good work of seljuks by bringing asia west of iran, maghreb and large chunks of eastern europe under turkish rule.
pakistanis
inhabitants of a land conquered by outsiders at will. from alexander onwards, any two bit general who wanted to hit big time by capturing booty or land, headed over to south asia where success rate of invaders was 100%.
currently, turkish army is under attack from the kurdish terrorist group pkk operating out of northern iraq. despite objections of uncle sam, turkish army has attacked pkk bases in iraq in order to eliminate the biggest threat to turkish state. domestically turkish army has 100% support of awam. both religious as well as secular leadership is united in favour of actions against the kurds.
as in turkey, army in pak is dealing with insurgents. groups acting against army are jihadis as well baluchi insurgents. unlike in turkey however, both secular as well religious leadership supports insurgents killing pakistani army jawans. and from the mute reaction of pakistani awam, it appears that awam does not give a rats ass if foreigners in the guise of arab terrorists target people whose job is to defend pak. the reaction of pak awam makes it clear why foreign invaders conquered s.asia at will.
going forward, we will continue to bend in front of foreigners. our forefathers bent in front of invaders and we will bend in front of visa officers sitting in islamabad. we dont have what it takes to run a country that can reach greatness.
Shah Faisal Sahib, Congrats on the second good post. Looks like you are hitting the boundaries. you are on a roll Badshah Salamat.
BTW Turks are bending in front of German visa officers as well. So let's go easy on our quom (nation) will ya?
Pakistan has great potential and it has done exceedingly well considering our starting point in 1947.
Just keep focussed, and keep encouraging people. They will one day learn.
and keep up the good work.
thanks for the kind words and i enjoy reading your posts as well.
the reason pak has done well is because army has been able to keep outsiders at bay while at the same time keeping politicians in check when they get out of line. without the army, you will have afghans walking in from the west and indians from the east. the current campaign against army is driven by people who have hatred of pakistani state and its frustrating to see silence of pak awam even when while awam itself is paying a very high price.
A big difference between the two countries is that Turkish army chose to fight its wars by itself, while Pak army developed a habit of fighting proxy wars by creating militias. The murd-e-momin let young innocent kids of Pak nation become fuel of Afghan war and in Kashmir, while FATA was left in 20th century to act as buffer zone, so that army is not bothered with an additional responsibility.
Another difference is that Turks are a very compact group with pride in their ethnicity. Unlike Pakistan where ethnic clowns like Altaf Hussain are worshipped. Pakistanis never came together as one nation, always pakhtoo, baluchi, Sindhi, Punjabi divide. Pakis hate each other.
you know Pakistanis like yourself love to self-flagellate. There is no end to such self-loathing. No End!
You want to improve Pakistan then do so. Why do you have to prove that every Tom, Dick and Harry (Anwar, Aslam, and Akram) are better than us.
Here are some facts about your Turkey.
Turkish army is in the same or worst limbo compared to Pakistani army. Remember they are goverened by the NATO army rule. We still are non-nato. In addition to that they are practically begging to join EU.
Anyways here is your Turkish army fighting with American help (Off course Thanksgiving is not two far away).
Well Turkey does have advantage of being predominantly one ethnicity. However that didn’t help them with the a Muslim Kurd minority.
I don't know where Mir Jaffer/Sadiq were born, any chances they were born in the land now Pakistan? Yes, NS, BB, Musharraf, Zia were born on same land too.
I am not too sure about Turkey, may be their system works from bottom-to-top (govt takes shape from people) and our system works from top-to-bottom (people take shape from govt).
I don't know where Mir Jaffer/Sadiq were born, any chances they were born in the land now Pakistan? Yes, NS, BB, Musharraf, Zia were born on same land too.
I am not too sure about Turkey, may be their system works from bottom-to-top (govt takes shape from people) and our system works from top-to-bottom (people take shape from govt).
Aaah the famous Mir Jafar and Sadiq. Just remember the verse.
Jafar az Bengal, and Sadiq az Deccan
Nang-e-millat, nang-e-din, nang-e-watan
[trans:
Jafar was a bengali, and Sadiq was a South Indian
Both of these gentlemen
brought shame to their names and ancestral places and their religion]
So the credit of generating these awesome personalities goes to modern day Indian Muslims.
