Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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If you all notice, that militants and suiciders stop attacking far off places if their homes and caves are bombed.

It doesn’t matter if they are arabs or Pakistanis or chechens or Uzbeks. If the feel their caves are safe, they try to intimidate you by coming after you.

But if you stand ground and put some cobras and tanks at their tails, they run like heck. The only way to deal with these munafiqeen and kuffar is to take the fire right in the cave where they dwell.

Negotiation does not work with these primitive beings. Laton kay bhoot baton say na manay.

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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

For once, i Agree with you.

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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

Not talking about Chechans, Uzbek, Egyptinas, but after all, at the last, you have to sit on tables with Pakistani Talibans of Mehsood, Afridi,Wazeer , Mehmand etc as u cannot eliminate them from thier land keeping in view thier 3000 years history.

Please welcome our new mod Southie
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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

once pakistan formally re-recognises the afgan taliban can we really make inroads with mehsuds tribe. if then then the mehsud tribe continue their quest then the militay should be used to eliminate*

this is the WOT farce

*genocide is not an option

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Once these foreigners and their lackey Pakistanis are killed or arrested, the rest will automatically come to their senses.

There is no sitting down with the tables or "on" the tables.

Remember! *Peaceful citizens of Pakistan don't "negotiate" peace, they "want" peace. *

And the peace is only guaranteed when the government uses the law enforcement agencies to suppress the criminals.

For far too long, we have subjected Pakistanis citizens of FATA to ancient, outdated, and outmoded system. FCR and this pathetic jirga system should have been thrown away. These are yokes of tribalism and lawlessness. No wonder FATA has been a haven of drugs, illegal arms, and kidnapping for the last 60 years. And no tradition allows this criminal behavior.

It is about time we learned from this 3 or better yet 5000 years of history and provided some real peace and civilization to the primitive tribals.

5000 years ago your ancestors lived on the trees or may be under some camel hide. You want to continue that tradition then be my guest. For the rest of the normal people, a proper house, a road, a police system, and multilayer court system, and business rules are a must. And no 3000 years old history goes against that.

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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

Dont forget that the bully Americans have brought all those people here in 1979-1988 when they crushed thier enemy , as usual by thier nature , American ran from the field leaving Pakistan alone in battle field. Most of these people have married local girls and now Son in laws of those tribals. Its not easy when u say kill or arrest them by looking at the complexity of the situation.Aiman Zawahri has married wa Mahmandi Girl. And History tells us the same what i have quoted, from Alexander to Ranjeet Singh, from British to Russians, who defeated them with sword !

Dude grow up and smell the coffee. Guns and bullets are ultimately no solution of any problem . When Americans and NATO which have been shamelessly defeated in Afghanistan are talking secretly with moderate Talibans via Riyadh, when America have tallked with sunni tribes in Iraq to isolate Al-Qaeda, who is America now to tell us that not to talk with them ! We have to look what the interest of Pakistan and people of Pakistan and certainly we should prefer the interests of people living in Pakistan not the interest of the people living in US .

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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

I think anti-obl here was the top military tactical advisor for USSR right before it broke up into pieces.

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If you have married your daughter to a criminal, it is your problem and the rest of the country doesn't have to pay the price for your decision.

if you are sane, you will kick out the criminal be it your son or son-in law. However if you protect him, then you are aiding and abetting criminals, and that makes you ??????

Yeap and the tough love must be given to anyone who happens to be a Pakistani and still harbors anti-Pakistan criminals.

It is a poor argument to drag Afghanistan in this discussion. Pakistanis should have nipped this Afghan evil in the bud. We didn't and we are paying for it.

Afghans are fighting other Afghans and foreign occupiers. In Pakistan the criminals who kill Pakistani soldiers have no right to use Afghan argument.

Anyone committing anti-state terror is a terrorist and that's all.

If you want to defend Afghanistan, then go over there. Why are you sitting in Pakistan or UK or US and firing shots at Pakistanis. Be a Murd and not a zankha and go fight where fight is due.

p.s. The above example is just to illustrate weakness of your arguments, and do not imply that you knowingly will ever support a criminal even if he happens to be your son in law.

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The same 'crimnals' which were once treated as Heroes in US, Princes in White House and Dream Warriors in Hollywood's Rambo :)

No one can justiify the innocents killings whether in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan or in USA by these people but who justifies the killing of 2000 innocent women at Sabira , Shateela by Israel , raping 13 13 years girls . You have seen those little innocent and beautiful girls , killing of a child when he was throwing stones from behind the drum and IDF personal shot him in head and media showed it . You have seen those crimes and America using VETO more than 400 times in Security Council in defence of Israel.

Nowtell me who is biggest crimnal , yes who kill innocents like Al-Qaeda are crimnals but who kill it by state force and those who protect the genocide and raping of 13 13 years girls...who are they , just tell me ???

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Yeap and the tough love must be given to anyone who happens to be a Pakistani and still harbors anti-Pakistan criminals.

It is a poor argument to drag Afghanistan in this discussion. Pakistanis should have nipped this Afghan evil in the bud. We didn't and we are paying for it.

Afghans are fighting other Afghans and foreign occupiers. In Pakistan the criminals who kill Pakistani soldiers have no right to use Afghan argument.

Anyone committing anti-state terror is a terrorist and that's all.

If you want to defend Afghanistan, then go over there. Why are you sitting in Pakistan or UK or US and firing shots at Pakistanis. Be a Murd and not a zankha and go fight where fight is due.

p.s. The above example is just to illustrate weakness of your arguments, and do not imply that you knowingly will ever support a criminal even if he happens to be your son in law.
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I dont defend those who kill innocent pakistanis but i want u to see the whole scenario.Its very complex problem and blamming one group will not solve the problem. Why Americ not leave Afghanistan, already defeated what else she wants. 99% problems will be solved when America will evacuate this land. Oppressors have to leave and specially in this region !

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Listen. Think about this. You feed a dog and train him to defend your household. You love the dog and the dog remains faithful to you. One day poor dog gets rabies and starts attacking your kids. What would you do? Sit down and right a thesis on rabies and dogs? Heck no. You will have that dog killed in a jiffy.

If Jihadis were good to us, we paid them for their services. It doesn't mean they can start kidnapping and killing our citizens.

Criminal status cannot go away based on history. If you commit a crime you are a ?????

See how quickly you brought your "but" in here.

When it comes to suicide bombings and killings in Pakistan, there are no ifs and no buts and definitely no stinking butts.

p.s. If you burn in rage for Sabra, then go there and fight. Don't be a coward that you can't kill Israelis so you start killing Pakistanis. What kind of dimwit logic is that?

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The Taliban and other militant groups are also oppressing. When America leaves there will be a new set of problems ie just as there were pre-2001.

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So jihadis says why Pakistan supported US in this war and still NATO supplies major route is Karachi-Torkhum . They say why Pakistan support US. I am not giving my view, i am giving those extremeists view. and You know these pople are famous for thier revenge no matter it prolongs for centuries. Certainly Islam not justify any innocent killings but problem is of there tribal culture which solely based on Revenge , not true islam.

[quote]
See how quickly you brought your "but" in here.

When it comes to suicide bombings and killings in Pakistan, there are no ifs and no buts and definitely no stinking butts.

p.s. If you burn in rage for Sabra, then go there and fight. Don't be a coward that you can't kill Israelis so you start killing Pakistanis. What kind of dimwit logic is that?
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I already said these fanatics mullahs are mad who kill innocents whether in Iraq, Pakistan, Europe or US . Who justifies them. But at the same time you also look what state-terrorism is, who is supporting illegitimate state of Israel, who killed 800,000 innocents Iraqis for superficial WMDs . Two wrongs canot make the thing right.If US stop using state terrorism may be these fanatics stop using individual terrorism...so simple...

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pathetic

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America should leave .Lets ahve fairv elections there with help of NATO and islamic countries and let people to choose . If they choose talibans OK..if moderate then also right. Lets them give this right to elect as people in US have a right to elect thier leader, why not to Afghanis..and I am sure in election mostly will elect moderates as in Pakistan when Musharraf used to terrify West with Mullahs taking Islamabad in elections, Pakistan 100% elected moderates like PPPP, PML , ANP and MQM . Lets people decide and let them give thier right , let them have a free land after 30 years of war destruction .

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Jihadis took money and weapons from the same America and served American interests. This is like pot calling the kettle black.

If America was so bad in 1980s, why the heck Jihadis coddled with the CIA? Nobody forced them into Jihad. They took $$ from the Master, and now they are trying to turn against their master. What a pity.

Anyways if they have an issue with the US in Afghanistan, then go die in Afghanistan? off course they won't. In Afghanistan these eunuchs couldn't stand for 3 days, and ran with their tails in their legs.

A mard, a man, fights openly and with pride. These taliban eunuchs hide behind women and children and like eunuchs explode bombs in the middle of civilians.

A true Muslim stands clearly for war and follows proper rules set up by the government. If a true Muslim knows that war cannot be won, he agrees when the government signs Hudabia treaty.

These eunuchs are neither Muslims nor Mards. They are munafiqs and kafirs because kafirs and munafiqs used to hide among masses and kill from within.

p.s So many of terror supporters are eunuchs too. Like old day munafiqs they live and breed in the West and still create Jihadi mayham in their homes like 7/7 bombing, and Glasgow airport kafir doctors who burned themselves.

Timepass / Uncle Ehsan's Baithak - August 2012
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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

^^ dont want to get into long useless debate but just to correct the facts...for 3 years Pakistan and Mujhaideen fighted alone without any aid or help..as US did not even think that Afghanis can defeat the Red Army, the o much so that when Jimmy offered 40M , Zia shut his mouth by saying..we dont want your peanut ! It was latter when US used these people for its own interest and when these people and Pakistan defeated Red Bear , instead of any established government in afghanistan and helping Pakistan for refugees problem, these runners of US ran as usual what thier nature is. I am dazed to hear about a Professor of Pakistan visiting a US library at lunch time and host started his lunch without asking him and said ..actually its our lunch time !

I dont support their way of war ,its against islam and rules. But Rules should be lectured by those who themselves follow all rules, who kill 800,000 Iraqis for imaginary WMDs, they ahve no right now weeping for any rules and regulations !

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Well, a few years back when the war started I along with a few others were against the war, but many ardent supporters of Musharraf were in favour of it. The argument they made at that time was that the war is against a small number of terrorists belonging to South Waziristan. Keeping in view the previous history, we didnt learn any lessons! The Americans/NATO having all their military might could not control Iraq/Afghanistan by military incursions. As in Iraq, the Americans had to finally sit with the insurgents to calm down things. Similarly the Americans are working towards a negotiated solution of Afghanistan.

The small battle that began in Waziristan has engulfed all the tribal areas including Khyber, Orakzai etc. which were very peaceful agencies and has steadily moved on to other settled areas of NWFP. There was no political group by the name of Taleban before the advent of this war, now we have TTP and the group is getting stronger by the day. Due to our operations many recruits are available, and US/India is cashing on them to launch an insurgency against Pakistan. Now, its a matter of time when the taleban will be launching attacks against government interests.

Keeping in view the present situation, I believe people are living in fool's paradise who still believe that the situation can be controlled by crushing the taleban. No country attacks their own people with gunship helicopters, well Pakistan is different. :) India has confronted many insurgencies and they didnt unleash their air might although they have a much stronger military than we do.

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There are some differences and some similarities between Iraq and Wazirastan.

But the terror sympathizers would have you believe that both are the same. In fact they would throw in Palestine too.

The biggest difference between Iraq and Wazirastan is that Pakistanis are not the occupying force. They are trying to destroy terror within their land.

You keep on harping on negotiations. Don't you know what negotiations mean in our corrupt tribal culture. It is give me more money than the other party and I'll side with you. That's not negotiations that's bribery and corruption.

And yes Pakistani government has tried to bribe the corrupt khans. Hanven't you heard about Mullah diesel getting government lands? And so much money got thrown into Waziris?

The problem is that corrupt Waziris take Pakistani tax payers money and then go back to Arabs and get even more money. They are playing classical game of deceit and selling their souls and their women for pretty penny.

It was wrong to negotiate with Waziris and it is wrong to negotiate with bajore or Sawati militants. We have been negotiating with these dimwit Jihadis since 1990s Mullah Sufi's sharia movement.

It is people like you sir, who are Pakistanis and still support terror against Pakistan just because it is being carried on in the name of Islam and Sharia.

Yes because we didn't nip the evil in the bud. We tried as you suggest, negotiate nay bribe the corrupt khans. And that is not working.

With tribals, the only thing works is bigger force and no negotiations. The more you negotiate, the weaker you appear.

You talk about India. Oh bro! India goes easy only in areas that are semi disputed and they are not a "Direct" threat to its national sovereignty.

Remember what they did to the Sikhs in golden temple. Taliban are our Sikhs. We need to treat Baitullah as Bhindranawala. Ask a Sikh rebel sympathizer and he will tell you the atrocities by their Gill guy.

Another example from Pakistan for you. Waziris are doing the same as MQM did back in the BB time. Back then Pak army used tanks and helicopters to spot and kill MQM jihadis. And that's the only way Karachi came under control.

So no more negotiations i.e. bribes to corrupt to the core khans. It is time to flatten the villages after taking taking the innocent civilians out.

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Re: Taking the fight to militants' caves is the only way to go - No negotiations !

General Yayha and Niazi also used to say similar things once..result is in front of us !

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Aaah the BDesh comes in. Just the same old ploy of socialists and now Islamists.

Open the map oh desert bird and learn that BDesh was 1000s miles away with no logistical lines open back to Pakistan.

Pakistan's war in BDesh was like UK trying to defend Falklands with no aircraft carrier but only two naval boats. Obviously the result would be different than what we saw back then.

BDesh war is a classical study where a country has to defend a distant protectorate. In such a situation you need the best navy in the world and Pakistan never had one.

In case of contiguous territories like FATA, it is not navy that plays any role, instead army and airforce are the mainstays.

So yes the Islamists and socialists will try to scare us with BDesh boogeman, and if we get scared we'll lose. Our loss is the hope of all the Islamists right now. I am sure our army will kick Islamist-socialist behind just like so many other armies are doing right now.