Re: Taking Care of Parents
Most of us are self reliant and have enough self respect to never be a burden on the next generation. My grandmother would not come and live with us because it was hurtful to lose her independence. Most older people I know would never move countries or live with their families for the same reason.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
In my case I believe that my parents (fairly religious, ethnocentric immigrants) would have a much more difficult time integrating into the culturally distinct environment of a nursing home in the US, which in my area would be run and occupied by mostly Christian, white folks. Some of the activities such as ballroom dancing and poker night would not suit them and even the more posh nursing homes find it difficult to accommodate zabiha diets, have different standards of modesty, privacy, and cleanliness. Also, I find that older folks (just my personal observation) that are facing issues of dementia and Alzheimers tend to be much more comfortable using their native language even if they are/were very fluent in English. There is one nursing home in my area that is beginning to cater to a desi clientele (food, language) but the quality of care is horrible.
My community is ill-prepared to deal with aging of my parents generation, the large wave of immigrants that arrived in US in the 60s-70s. Many are living quite a bit longer than their parents and are encountering many more age-related diseases that require long-term care in a country where labor costs are orders of magnitude greater that their country of origin. My elderly grandparents had multiple round-the-clock live-in caregivers including paid servants to help them with all their personal hygiene needs. Since labor was cheap and the money was often coming in dollars from overseas children and therefore relatively abundant, the quality of care that my grandparents received was superb-better than previous generations. In addition the stay-at-home female relatives (most of the women didn’t work) would always be available to supervise the paid caregivers while providing comfort and company. My parents generation has this caregiving ideal that they want to have emulated for their care because they don’t have an alternative picture of how aging is supposed to work, but they want it in the US. I’m not sure how the Canadian system works, but skilled care in the US is extremely expensive and quality care is hard to find (personal experience). Plus with many women working outside the home, the social aspect is missing, as the elder is home alone with a ‘stranger.’
To answer the OPs initial question, for one parent, I had to stop working for some time and juggled care with a sister who at times had to do the same. IA, the remaining elders will also be taken care of at home by family members with nursing care hired as needed, but I believe that this is far from ideal for both aging person and the child. The aging person would benefit from the social structure provided by a community of their peers with group activities like regular prayers, quran classes, watching dramas, mushairas, exercise, etc. When parents are at home and can no longer drive, they become isolated from the community. And as much as we tried to bring the community and family to them it was sporadic while a daily routine would be much better for them. And during the week, with jobs, school, activities, getting dinner on the table, it was a struggle to spend even an hour of quality time with them. They were always asking us to sit with them because they felt lonely and our inability to do so left us riddled with guilt even though that time was needed to make sure the laundry was done or foods that they were willing to eat were available to them.
We as a community need to develop nursing homes that can be sensitive to and accommodate the needs of the Muslim population. I would love to have a quality nursing home or assisted living community to go to if I needed it so that the full burden of my care would not fall on my children. I wouldn’t want my care to significantly hinder their careers or take away the precious time they should be investing in their own young families.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
Agreed.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
I experienced this with one person in my family in the U.S. My youngest khala (widowed and no kids) had a stroke in her late 50’s which left half her body paralyzed. She ended up with a feeding tube, bed ridden in a diaper, could not recognize/remember anyone in the family/her past 90% of the time etc. She required around the clock care that no one in the family could provide. Everyone works and no one could afford to simply give up their job to stay home with her. And with her condition, it’s not like she could be left alone in a home for 8-10 hours a day. I have one khala who is retired and lives on her own…however, this particular khala is herself in her 70’s and has physical problems. It was a painful realization for this khala and others to accept that even IF my bedridden khala moved in with this khala, the retired khala was not physically strong enough to do the things that needed to be done every few hours in order to ensure that the bedridden khala was property taken care of. LONG story short…the family (my khalas/mamus) agreed to put the khala in a nursing home. Every week the family took turns visiting here but of course, most of the time she didn’t even recognize anyone. She lived in that nursing home for about a year and then died.
My parents are thankfully very healthy right now and 100% independent (they’re in their 60’s). However, if it ever comes to a point where they are not able to live on their own, my plan is to have them live with me (and split time with my sisters if they’re willing to share the responsibilities). My husband is supportive of my plan. If they are in a position where they need professional medical care or constant supervision, then I would like to think that I have enough savings to be able to hire the necessary help. With my in-laws, they will most likely live with my BIL since they’re much closer to BIL/SIL (both of whom are physicians). In the event of serious medical conditions, thankfully my in-laws are very wealthy and can easily afford to hire a full-time nurse to stay with them if the need arises. I can say for sure that my in-laws will never end up in a nursing home.
The thing is most people don’t know how hard this is. Having an elderly person live with you who can feed/bath/poop etc. on their own is one thing. But dealing with someone with medical needs like the ones you describe, or even dealing with someone who has let’s say has Alzheimers and tends to have violent outburst can be VERY difficult and take a toll on everyone living in the household including children. And as you mentioned, hiring home health care is not cheap. I believe there is a nursing home in NJ started by a Indian guy that caters to the India community. I’d think down the road more will open up as our parents generation and ours becomes older.
**Question: ** Has anyone here actually have lived with a person who was bedridden and needed constant medical care? Like the ones described by PCG? I know many of you have a family where both you and your spouse work full time. Are you financially in a position to give up one paycheck in order to have a elderly parent move in with you who is bedridden and can’t be left alone for hours? If you’re a man, are you willing to bathe and change your elder mother’s diaper if she’s in that condition OR do you expect your wife to do this without complaining? How many of you are aware of the costs of home health care and truly believe you an afford it?
Re: Taking Care of Parents
Most of my relatives are in Pakistan still. So my mami-jaan’s dad had a fall, and broke his hip, and it took a toll on him. He is wealthy, and is able to hire a steward nurse who helps him at home for bathrooming needs etc, while he does his rehab, and the nurse does the rehab with him daily. As a result, his healing has been remarkable. I don’t see that kind of healing in our patients here in the US that we send off to rehab centers. Some of them never make it back up and die after a hip fracture, because they go off to these rehab centers and die.
Another uncle of ours - a distant relative - had some medical problems and ended up in a rehab center. They never called me - I was in Texas at the time training, and so I found out when it was too late. He was having delirium in the nursing home, and family didn’t recognize what was going on and nursing homes and rehabs are notorious for letting patients get sick on them. By the time they realize something is wrong, it’s too late. Doctors don’t really round regularly in these places and since we as a country have made the decisions to now let nurses be doctors, nurse practitioners, and RN’s and LPNs running these places get to make actual medical decisions. Calling the doctor is actually up to their discretion. So he never made it to a hospital, and he died.
He probably had some infection or something that could have been resolved or prevented, I bet, but the family never called me and I didn’t get a chance to help. I am really annoyed at that family, he was a sweet old man, and he was definitely salvageable if I’m hearing the details right (I just have second hand info).
My grandmother had a fall in Pakistan - tripped over a crawling grandchild - and broke her back. She lasted a few years after that, was somewhat debilitated at first and in pain, but it got better with rehab. Again, the nurse simply stayed with us. She was a poor Christian woman, happy to be hired to help. She helped my grandmother get to the bathroom, helped with toileting needs, etc. Now that same nurse in the US would cost a fortune, and even doctor families, I can tell you can’t afford it. I would have to live pretty frugally and put away most of what I make for that rainy day to one day afford a live in nurse, if I were to do it. We’ve done calculations for interested patients and families and 100% of the time, they can’t manage it. I saw one patient ever who was able to have home health help round the clock with nurses who did GREAT home care, and the patient’s husband was LOADED, and so he could afford it.
That kind of care works best, if done right, keeps the elderly patient out of the hospital. Otherwise, in the US, it’s a revolving door. They go to a rehab, get sick, come right back. Because they’re surrounded by other patients who are petri dishes, and the nurses/techs don’t wash their hands. Even the guy who brings food into the room - he wont wash his hands. So 90% of the time, these patients have problems in their rehab course due to infections. Best way to rehab is actually at home, but SOMEONE needs to be at home.
In the past, this has always been a woman. But these days, we do not have this. Many girls are working. They can’t totally stop their work and sit at home.
I have no idea how I’m going to handle it. I’m going to have no choice but to quit my job and pick up part time moonlighting jobs when I’m able to get away from home. I’d have to have other family members actively pitch in. Hard to do when you’re in the US and most of your family is in Karachi.
I think my dad was interested in retiring in Karachi, but now they’re afraid to do it with all the violence.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
I think Muslim based - elder day care is not a bad idea - this can be done thru masjid properties even if masjids are willing to build extensions to their buildings.
And I think our community in the US really needs to start looking into muslim-based nursing home care.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
**Question: **Has anyone here actually have lived with a person who was bedridden and needed constant medical care? Like the ones described by PCG? I know many of you have a family where both you and your spouse work full time. Are you financially in a position to give up one paycheck in order to have a elderly parent move in with you who is bedridden and can’t be left alone for hours? If you’re a man, are you willing to bathe and change your elder mother’s diaper if she’s in that condition OR do you expect your wife to do this without complaining? How many of you are aware of the costs of home health care and truly believe you an afford it?
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Yes, bedridden and required constant care. Alhamdulillah, we were able to afford giving up my paycheck as well as hiring care. Even with really great caregivers my parents wanted their children as they became sicker. This is not something that we anticipated because my parents pushed their children, regardless of gender, in getting educated and career-wise but when senility strikes personalities change and people cling to the familiar. Also, you have to consider the opportunity cost to our careers. The time off that I had to take is really atypical for the career I was in and has dramatically altered my career trajectory.
But paid caregivers are rarely going to do as good of a job as you will. Every caregiver I have hired has required extensive retraining to even get basic things like proper glove usage and hand washing down (these were CNAs and/or RNs).
Re: Taking Care of Parents
Has anyone here looked into long-term care insurance for a relative or themselves? Pros and cons?
Re: Taking Care of Parents
Talked about this earlier with my parents and we agreed that the best solution for us would be them staying in their own home and living independently as long as possible.. If/when that’s not possible they’ll live with either us or my brother + his future wife in an annexe type arrangement.. My parents are the kind of people who like to be independent and have their own privacy as well so an annexe means they’d get all that but we could also keep an eye on them to make sure everything’s ok as long as we’re able to..
An uncle of mine whose wife died a while back left his house and went to live with his son + dil but he’s now in a care home.. He’s the only desi person I know of personally in one.. That uncle was “difficult” (he used to make fun of his wife in front of guests so God knows what went on behind closed doors) but the son is also not the easiest person to get along with so there was a massive personality clash and a LOT of stress and drama.. Uncle also made himself ill by not taking his medication properly and not listening to people trying to make him take it the right way.. Dad was telling me he passed out a wedding and was sometimes quite aggressive and paranoid..
Re: Taking Care of Parents
I wouldn’t want to be in there I swear.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
I’d be ok in a retirement village or sheltered housing if I was on my own (I think that’s what you call it?) but I wouldn’t want to be cooped up in a home with set times to get up, eat, go to sleep and basically no privacy..
Re: Taking Care of Parents
Talk about dodging the question and how it’s SIL and BIL and not the poster themself.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
I wrote a paper on that some months back. It’s expensive and does not last forever. But yes, it is still a better option than the Medicaid run nursing homes.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
**Is that aimed at me or OP? So many sly digs from you on a regular basis it’s hard to tell.. You make a point of not quoting as well to try and avoid these persistent personal digs being reported.. Did you learn that from Nomi? Ironic since you mention “dodging” LOL
**
I’ve said my parents can come and live in an annexe and same would go for hubby’s parents’ as long as we’re able to help.. A normal person would be able to make sense of that.. Only someone who makes a point of being constantly negative and picking at peoples’ posts every day would feel the need to make a comment like that..
Re: Taking Care of Parents
This seems like a great program: ‘Dementia village’ inspires new care - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/world/europe/wus-holland-dementia-village/)
Re: Taking Care of Parents
More importantly what is your own game plan.
I often think about it. I don’t want to live with my kids when I grow old, but I don’t know, may be I may change when I grow old.
Re: Taking Care of Parents
This would be a great idea for a good budding entrepreneur. A muslim “villages” model. We have “the villages” in north Florida. People from all over the country come to retire here and the amenities are great.
Wouldn’t be a bad idea to consider something similar for muslims. Not sure how true this is and I never saw it living in Dallas but supposedly Irving , Dallas has a community of houses or apartments where it’s all muslims. Anyone know of this?