True but how about people living in a place for 20-30 years but still not having a say in how a place functions or being treated as equal? Or racism which makes it ok to exclude particular nationalities from shopping centres no matter how devout they may be? How is it fair? What if an Asian muslim wanted to buy property to make a mosque in a gulf state? Or an orphanage or something like that to help others of the ummah? Is the idea of being treated equally and free of racism something we should be concerned with in the world’s holiest cities? Why do many excuse Arab state actions but blame the West entirely. Maybe if they were supportive and believed in a Muslim ummah they might make their own soldiers. They might recuit others from different countries and treat them equally without prejudice while not looking down on them. Why can’t they form their own army? Or say no to US help and pay their own people to be soldiers. They make enough money from oil to be able to do that. If they wanted to they could refuse the US. I’m sure the US wouldn’t attack or invade the gulf states if they refused. Since they do not do all that they must be getting something out of the US relationship as well even if it’s just security. Saudi Arabia will take 1000s of Pakistani doctors yearly yet hardly any will get citizenship ever.Saudi Arabia to import thousands of Pakistani doctors sorry for getting off topic. I just find this really unfair. Importing them like a commodity yet giving basic rights.
As a Muslim, gaining property or material shouldn't be our concern.
Saudi is supporting its own groups in Syria which aren't even Syrians....so they can impose shariah.
Besides, Saudi, Qatar and Gulf don't even have armies....they pay Americans to protect their lands.
The lack of armies is irrelevant. The principle remains, wealthy Gulf states also meddle in the Middle East. Most of Pakistan's problems rest just as much on SA as they do on the US, yet the Saudis don't bear the brunt of foreign policy criticism.
Has American been heavy handed in dealing with resource rich countries? Yes they have. Would Muslim countries have done the same? Probably. Any wealthy country is going to impose its will on others. America just takes it too far.
I would rather see an international intervention, if any, to stop the human rights violation. Assad may be their ally, but I would like to think that China and Russia could be convinced to bear down on him if it's proven that he was indeed the one who used the chemical weapons.
I think the US will invade but more to send Iran (and other countries) a message about chemical weapons and WMDs than anything else.
Why would the Arabs help anyone but themselves? Specially the Al Sauds...they just like to sit on their oil and get fat!
After living in the ME for about 5yrs... 99% of the time..all I have seen is dirty politics where ever you go...racism at its best...I have gone and lived in UK and Europe..never felt any racism from them...but ME was a very different and disappointing story. It was more disappointing because you would expect more from Islamic countries...
So, you will never see the Arabs (I am talking about the leaders) do anything to help the needy even if it is their own fellow Muslims in a different country...another ethnic war is probably going to start in SL against the Muslims...I don't see the Arabs doing anything about it..when they can for sure put a lot of pressure on the SL govt.
So, the West should really stay out of this...the Arabs need to learn that they can't drag the West into everything and then expect everything to be hunky dory. They need to man up and clean out their own crap from their own house...or they will never be able to save themselves in drowning in it.
Their real enemy, I feel are the Al Sauds...not the West, coz if you can't really depend on your own people, then why point fingers at the West.
I posted this in another thread but I will post it here as well.
The lack of military action by Muslim countries is simply quite logical.
Syria has never denied having chemical weapons. In 2012 it stated that its chemicals weapons existed for the purpose of deterring external aggression (and it vowed to never use them against its own population, a vow that it broke).
But this means that Syria promised that any country that attacked it would be hit with chemical weapons (of which Syria has plenty). All of the militarily powerful Muslim countries are within easy reach of Syria's missiles and planes; any neighbouring Muslim country that allowed its territory to be used to host an invasion of Syria would find its armies and population under chemical attack.
The USA and Western European countries are the only ones that can do what the Muslim countries cannot - hit Syria, while remaining out of reach of Syrian retaliation.
If you demand that Muslim countries take action instead of the US, then you are demanding the deaths of hundred of thousands, if not millions, of Muslims from Syrian chemical attacks.
Racism exists everywhere in some form…look at the Indian adverts of fairness creams or a black teenager’s white murderer coming out unharmed unpunished.
About not being able to not having a say…well most people are here to make money…the rule is simple, you don’t pay any taxes, you don’t get to have a say in governmental affairs.
Also, even in US you can’t question your government…referring to the PRISM surveillance program. How many Americans came out protesting against their government?
About Arabs not being able to attack Assad…please refer to Mad Scientist’s post. I think he makes some excellent points.
It exists in every form but it is different when some parts of society is racist or when you have racism part of the law. People can be racist in India and Pakistan but they don’t have some law saying that people who visit their country can’t enter this shopping centre because they are of some nationality. You don’t really think that is right do you? So if Arabs can’t attack Assad then what about faraway countries where Muslims are being attacked like in Burma, China or Sri Lanka, why can’t they speak out and do something about that? There is no fear of any retaliation and if they believed in a united Ummah they would support all Muslims regardless of background. US does control it’s citizens but many other countries do much more. You can do whatever you want in the UK or Australia or Scandinavian countries which still count as West. I don’t think Anjem Choudary is afraid to hold his protests on the street of the UK.
Like 7:47 saying things like “Uk go to hell..Uk police are going to burn in hell” is just wrong. Then saying they don’t have to follow the law of land. If that happened in a gulf country they wouldn’t be doing that. Just because people pay taxes or have freedom of speech doesn’t mean people can do anything. This just gives a bad image to all the decent people out there. If the Arabs cannot attack Assad because of consequences then US also has to deal with consequences like being hated even more and maybe being target of people who are against them attacking Syria.
I never "felt" the racism in UK or mid-east...doesn't mean it's doesn't exist. Anyway, I think since US has decided to attack Assad regardless of all the concerns mentioned by American Pakistanis here so no use of any debate.
US is not in it to save the Syrian rebels...they are punishing the regime for using chemical weapons so chill all you Arab haters.
I never "felt" the racism in UK or mid-east...doesn't mean it's doesn't exist. Anyway, I think since US has decided to attack Assad regardless of all the concerns mentioned by American Pakistanis here so no use of any debate.
US is not in it to save the Syrian rebels...they are punishing the regime for using chemical weapons so chill all you Arab haters.
I don't hate Arabs I just feel they should treat Pakistanis and other desis better. Kuch zyaada umeed toh nahi hai. US and Obama would have to be the biggest losers to attack Syria. Cant they learn from their past? Why don't they focus on themselves?
Lebanon had a civil war and the Arabs resolved it themselves.
Why should America be asked to get involved in every war that erupts in the Middle East.
People in the Middle East hate America and yet I am amazed that they are always asking America to intervene in any Civil War.
Syria has all the echoes of another Afghanistan.
If USA backs the Syrian Rebels, they will overthrow Assad and then start an ethnic cleasing of all non-sunnis from Syria and then these rebels will give shelter to Al Qaeda who will then use Syria as a staging ground for global terrorist attacks.
I much rather have a Secular Dictator control Syria than Syria being run by Al Qaeda terrorists.
I much rather have a Secular Dictator control Syria than Syria being run by Al Qaeda terrorists.
A Secular dictator who is slaughtering the citizenry...like I always say...secularism in the Arab/Islamic context is just another blood thirsty faction. You merely expose your bias on what kind of slaughter you approve of.
A Secular dictator who is slaughtering the citizenry...like I always say...secularism in the Arab/Islamic context is just another blood thirsty faction. You merely expose your bias on what kind of slaughter you approve of.
i can see your point of view but i wouldnt want my tax dollars going to support invasion into another country and creating more terror of another kind. But at least the secular dictators won't support militants going to other countries and creating trouble can't be too sure of Al Quaeda but they generally don't sound friendly. Al Quaeda dictator who will be supporting others to slaughter foreign citizens. We can all help refugees from syria by giving to charity. Look at what happened to Iraq after the US intervened it is in more trouble then before. Arent there enough issues in the world already especially in our Asia region that we need to create more? Maybe if Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan had a happier ending i would think differently
I never "felt" the racism in UK or mid-east...doesn't mean it's doesn't exist. Anyway, I think since US has decided to attack Assad regardless of all the concerns mentioned by American Pakistanis here so no use of any debate.
US is not in it to save the Syrian rebels...they are punishing the regime for using chemical weapons so chill all you Arab haters.
At least the UK won't be going in because of the parliament disagreeing with Cameron. Most people in UK don't support interference going by all the protests
A Secular dictator who is slaughtering the citizenry...like I always say...secularism in the Arab/Islamic context is just another blood thirsty faction. You merely expose your bias on what kind of slaughter you approve of.
And just let the Rebels take over Syria and you will see a slaughter worse than anything that is occurring right now.
It won't be a slaughter, it will be a genocide against all non-sunnis in Syria.
And just let the Rebels take over Syria and you will see a slaughter worse than anything that is occurring right now.
It won't be a slaughter, it will be a genocide against all non-sunnis in Syria.
So I am choosing the lesser of two evils.
But I'll see you you're imaginary yet-to-happen genocide, and raise you an ongoing and very real fratricide which isn't at all limited to targeting combatants. If this is the calculus you approve of, then I fail to see how you can object to any mass killings so long as the math works for the scoundrel you support.
^^^ No, but we have examples of what Islamists do when they take over any part of the world. Do you know what Taliban did to Hazaras in Afghanistan after they took over the Mazar-e-Sharif in 1998?
But I'll see you you're imaginary yet-to-happen genocide, and raise you an ongoing and very real fratricide which isn't at all limited to targeting combatants. If this is the calculus you approve of, then I fail to see how you can object to any mass killings so long as the math works for the scoundrel you support.
I don't support Assad but atleast with Assad you have someone rational in power in Syria. He protected minorities, women, did not let Syria become a conduit for international terrorism like Al Qaeda.
With the Rebels, you will see genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Non-Sunni Minorities, women's rights will be supressed, Syria will become a base of Al Qaeda to launch global terrorist attacks.
The only solution is a federalized power sharing agreement which is what was implemented in Lebanon and Iraq. Each sect has its own power base and security force.
But that needs to happen organically. Lebanon had a civil war from 1975. In 1989, the Arabs finally resolved it.
Syria's civil war needs to work itself out.
USA had a civil war in 1861-65 in which 600,000 Americans were killed. Did other powers intervene in their civil war? No, the Americans resolved it themselves.
It pales in comparison with what Assad is doing now, and what his father did before. Again, and again it must be said: secularism is just another viciious fation in the Muslim world.
It’s moronic to talk of hypothetical genocides when we have a mad man killing with impunity.
Just say what you want to say: you’d prefer Assad regardless of his recrod because he is secular. He’s of your sect.
I don't support Assad but atleast with Assad you have someone rational in power in Syria. He protected minorities, women, did not let Syria become a conduit for international terrorism like Al Qaeda.
He belongs to a minority and as of now has his boot on the neck of the majority (sunni). Internaiontal fighters form a minority of the rebel group, and of those a minority are from exteremist outfits like Al Qaeda. What can we expect in Syria? External actors will continue to suppor their favourite factions, so so long as some equilabrium is established, you'll have a peace. The response of the rebels will be proportional to how militant the Alawites and their supporters are. The dynamics of genocide are different...the rebels are too varied in interests and goals, and do not have a unified culture that will prop a genocidal narrative. Repreisals? Yes. Disorder? Perhaps. But I doubt there will be wholesale genocide.
But yes Syria's civil war must work itself out. The US involvement is unwanted.