Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
"We are here to teach you but please do not learn." and you are telling me there is no paradox. This verse needs a bit deeper thinking
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
^^^ Not really. Being Angels they were following the command of Allah, teaching people who wanted to learn magic and at the same time telling them that magic is trial of Allah for them. I cannot see any paradox here. :)
It is just like in UK we have shops selling cigarette packets with warning that smoking is bad for health, could cause cancer, and can kill. Just imagine that shops selling something and also warning that not to smoke as it can kill.
Same way, Angels selling magic and at the same time warning that not to learn magic as it is trial of Allah and could lead to hell.
What is big deal?
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
:) Do you think cigarette sellers do that on their own. No, but they do it as a requirement by ministry of health. Actually, it is quite funny that ministry of health has allowed them to do this business but just for the sake of fulfilling a formality they have forced sellers to put a warning on their product. At least, I cannot expect such a thing from Allah.
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
^^^ Purpose of Allah by sending magic to humans was to put human on trial and Allah do not put human on trial without warning. So ... agents of Allah (2 Angels) who was sent to teach magic to humans as trial, also fulfilled the requirement of warning humans.
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
Peace kchughati,
Almighty Allah said: “but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut”.
There is a difference of opinion regarding this. It was said that Al-Qurtubi stated that: 'this verse denies that anything was sent down to the two angels, he then referred to the verse “Suleiman did not disbelieve”, saying "The negation applies in both cases.
Almighty Allah then said: “But the Shayatin (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels”.
The Jews claimed that Gabriel and Michael brought magic down to the two angels, but Almighty Allah refuted his false claim.
Also, Ibn Jarir reported that Al-Awif said that Ibn Abbas said about Almighty Allah’s statement, “And such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels”, “Almighty Allah did not send magic down to them”.
Also, he narrated that "This is the correct explanation for this verse: “They followed what the shayatin (devils) gave out (falsely) in the lifetime of Suleiman) meaning, magic. However neither did Suleiman disbelieve nor did Almighty Allah send magic with the two angels. The devils, on the other hand, disbelieved and taught magic to the people of the Babylon of Harut and Marut.”
On the other hand: "Suleiman neither disbelieved nor did Almighty Allah send magic with the two angels. However, the devil disbelieved and taught magic to the people in the Babylon of Harut and Marut, meaning Gabriel and Michael, for Jewish sorcerers claimed that Almighty Allah sent magic by the words of Gabriel and Michael to Suleiman, Son of Dawood.
Almighty Allah denied this false claim and stated to His Prophet Muhammad 
that Gabriel and Michael were not sent with magic.
Almighty Allah know best.
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
^ LKK,
you said
[QUOTE]
The Jews claimed that Gabriel and Michael brought magic down to the two angels, but Almighty Allah refuted his false claim.
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and
[QUOTE]
On the other hand: "Suleiman neither disbelieved nor did Almighty Allah send magic with the two angels. However, the devil disbelieved and taught magic to the people in the Babylon of Harut and Marut, meaning Gabriel and Michael, for Jewish sorcerers claimed that Almighty Allah sent magic by the words of Gabriel and Michael to Suleiman, Son of Dawood.
[/QUOTE]
I need to understand the connection of Gabriel and Michael here. what is the basis
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
Let us step back a little and see the context of this verse. This verse starts with "and they" so it is linked with the previous one.
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And now when there has come to them a Messenger from Allah, fulfilling that which is with them, a party of the people to whom the Book was given have thrown the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if they knew it not.
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and this verse
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and they followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon. And Solomon did not disbelieve; but it was the evil ones who disbelieved......
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So group of people of the book (in the times of the holy prophet (pbuh)) had not accepted the divine message and the holy prophet (pbuh) despite clear indications in their books. Their behavior is similar to those "shayateen" who worked against the reign of Solomon (as). We need to see what were the people of the book upto against prophet Muhmmad(pbuh) that was similar to those who worked against the power of prophet Solomon (as)
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
I think being Muslim, one should read Quran and if an ayah has no metaphor than one should accept what is there, rather try to twist meaning (doubting words of Allah). Ayah 2:102 is very clear and has no metaphor. Let us break it and see what it says … starting from ayah 2:101 … as I understand:
Quran 2:102 … They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: “We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme.” They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah’s permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!
In Quran, Allah has mentioned past stories for us to learn and also for our knowledge. In mentioned ayah (2:102), Allah is telling us few things. They are:
1: What Suleiman (AS) was doing or done, it was not magic but power that Allah gave him.
2: At the time of Suleiman (AS), many Jews under the influence of evil ones amongst them (who were also magicians) accused Suleiman (AS) of Magic that is blasphemy.
3: Magic is blasphemy (curse) and person who indulges in magic has nothing in hereafter.
4: Allah has created magic spells that works because it is trial from Allah, else no magic spell works without permission of Allah.
5: All magic spells are from Allah and Allah sent Angels (Harut and Marut) to teach magic spells (though it does not mean that Allah has not given magic spells to humans before Harut and Marut)..
Another thing to remember is that we cannot say from ayah that period of Harut and Marut was same as period of Suleiman (AS) 3000 years ago … plus we also have to know that Harut and Marut came in Babylon and as far as history goes, Babylon at the time of Suleiman (AS) was a powerful city empire that was never occupied by Suleiman (AS).
From above ayah it is clear that Allah is talking about ‘Jews’ (people of the Book) who threw away the book of Allah and started talking (accusing) blasphemy against Suleiman (AS) … so what they were accusing Suleiman (AS) of?
The Jews followed what they were told by evil ones (evil Jews) … accusing Suleiman (AS) that Suleiman (AS) power is due to magic … and since using magic is blasphemy … their accusation meant Suleiman (AS) was blasphemer.
Allah then says:
That Suleiman (AS) was not blasphemer but it was those evil ones (those misguiding Jews) were blasphemers.
What evil ones were doing?
Evil ones were teaching Magic and whatever came down at Babylon to the Angels Harut and Marut.
Now, in following part of Ayah Allah is telling what Harut and Marut was teaching and what they were telling people before teaching them magic spells.
Here Allah is telling Muslims that Harut and Marut before teaching used to tell people that they are only there as trial and that what they are teaching would lead a person to blaspheme … that clearly means ‘Harut and Marut’ were teaching magic spells but at the same time discouraging people to learn what they were teaching.
Part of Ayah below tells what they were teaching. The nature of magic spell they were teaching:
‘Harut and Marut’ were teaching people how to sow discord between man and wife (something even today it seems people do with the help of magic spells)… so … Harut and Marut were teaching magic spells to sow discord between man and wife.
Above part of ayah tells Muslims that even though people learned magic spells from Harut and Marut of creating discord between husband and wife … magic spells has no power of its own but whatever result out of magic spell comes is with permission of Allah … And further ayah says that whatever they (magicians) learned harmed them and not profited them. They (magicians) also knew that whatever they were learning (magic spells), it would deprive them from happiness of the hereafter … and that if they knew what they are losing (happiness of hereafter) they would not have learned such magic spells.
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
Sometimes going plain literal amounts to twisting meanings (I will give you example if needed). This verse as many understood have lurked on the surface simply and adopted meanings that have contradictions and weirdness all around. As I have said before, we need to understand in proper context.
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Who were ‘they’? We get the answer from the previous verse i.e., people of the book mainly Jews.
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Why Sulieman (as) is mentioned in this verse. The answer that I have is for two reasons:
a) pointing to similarity of actions of the Jews of holy prophet (pbuh) era and that of Suleiman (as)'s adversaries
b) A clarification in favor of Sulieman (as) that he didn’t disbelieve or sinned.
Let us stop here for a moment and look back as what were the allegations against Suleiman (as) instead of going after conjectures.
The answer to this is fairly easy:
There are abundant pointers available on the net. You can understand from the above passage that the main allegation against Sulieman (as) was that he did shirk , turned away from the true God and went after the gods that some of his wives worshiped (Na-auzobillah).
Saleem, you are saying that the allegation against him was sorcery. please bring proof.
I am not finished yet as the topic is difficult for me to grasp in a single post. so I am trying to analyze it partially.
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
^^^ Please trust Quran … not what Jews say 
From ayah 2:102:
**
against the power of Suleiman (AS) … what power of Suleiman (AS) could be that evil ones tried to portray classifying it as blasphemy? … and Allah says that Suleiman (AS) was not blasphemers but it was evil ones who were blasphemers?
Obviously, here it is clear that both [Suleiman (AS) and evil ones] were doing something similar … one was doing due to power from Allah and it was not blasphemy (what Suleiman (AS) was doing) … and what other was doing is blasphemy (that is what evil ones were doing and also teaching ordinary Jews).
So … what it is that Allah is calling Blasphemy?
**
Allah has clearly defined above in the ayah what is Blasphemy … and it is same blasphemy that people were accusing Suleiman (AS) of … and that is what Harut and Marut were teaching after warning … and that is magic spells … spells that can bring discord between husband and wife and other magic spells that evil ones were teaching … and due to that Allah called them Blasphemers.
In above ayah … Harut and Marut were teaching magic and what they were calling magic? Blasphemy … same what evil ones were doing … and same what evil ones were accusing Suleiman (AS) of doing … that is magic.***
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
[QUOTE]
^^^ Please trust Quran ... not what Jews say
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I have full trust in Quran. that is why I don't believe that Suleiman (as) ever disbelieved unlike jews. At the same time, I try to have good understanding of these verses.
You didn't answer my question at all. Moreover, you are persistent on referring "power" to his miraculous powers etc. Let me show you how "ala Mulk-e-suleiman" has been translated by different translators:
1.) Pickthal ---- "against the kingdom of Solomon"
2) Shakir ------- "in the reign of Sulaiman"
3) Laleh bakhtiar ---- "during the dominion of Solomon"
4) Taqi Usmani --- "in the reign of Sulaiman (Solomon)"
5) tahirul-qadri ---- "during the reign of Sulayman (Solomon)"
yousaf ali used "against the power of suleiman" but it seems to have similar meanings
Also you are translating "Kafr" as blasphemy whereas its plain and literal meaning is rejecting the divine truth or disbelieving. It could be indirectly referred to as "blasphemy" but only by some interpretation ;). Please refer to the original text of the verse
Re: Surah Al Baqarah Verses 102
*Muhsin Khan: *They followed what the Shayatin (devils) gave out (falsely of the magic) in the lifetime of Sulaiman (Solomon).
*Pickthall: *And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon.
*Yusuf Ali: *They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon:
*Shakir: *And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman,
However way you look at it … you would see that ayah mentions that there was accusation of blasphemy on Suleiman (AS) … or … government of Suleiman (AS). Else in ayah Allah would not have mentioned that ‘Suleiman (AS) was not blasphemer but it was evil ones’.
Allah also tells in same ayah that why evil ones were blasphemer, and the reason given was that, they were teaching magic (what they knew and what they learned from Harut and Marut).
In same ayah Harut and Marut warned before teaching that what they are teaching, that is to create discord between husband and wife (and that also is magic, happens by using spell) … is blasphemy.
To me … from ayah, it clearly means that Suleiman (AS) was wrongly accused of Magic by those who themselves were involved in Magic (probably they were justifying their own practices of magic).
Allah also clarified in the ayah that magic only works with permission of Allah, else magic is useless … and that means, whatever Suleiman (AS) was doing and whatever way people looked at it, all was happening with permission and knowledge of Allah, who gave Suleiman (AS) power to perform, and thus Suleiman (AS) doing was not magic and thus it was not blasphemy … as what one does with permission and knowledge of Allah, even if it looks magic to onlookers, it is not magic but miracle.
[Note: Magicians do spell without permission of Allah assuming that spell has power to work, but in reality, it is Allah who makes the spell work so that he can test people and their faith. Since no one has permission to spell (do magic), all who get involved in magic are blasphemers or cursed]