Sura 7 verse 12-18

[Verizon]

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/007.qmt.html

YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: “What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.”
PICKTHAL: He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.
SHAKIR: He said: What hindered you so that you did not prostrate when I commanded you? He said: I am better than he: Thou hast created me of fire, while him Thou didst create of dust.
007.013
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: “Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures).”
PICKTHAL: He said: Then go down hence! It is not for thee to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! thou art of those degraded.
SHAKIR: He said: Then get forth from this (state), for it does not befit you to behave proudly therein. Go forth, therefore, surely you are of the abject ones.

007.014
YUSUFALI: He said: “Give me respite till the day they are raised up.”
PICKTHAL: He said: Reprieve me till the day when they are raised (from the dead).
SHAKIR: He said: Respite me until the day when they are raised up.

007.015
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: “Be thou among those who have respite.”
PICKTHAL: He said: Lo! thou art of those reprieved.
SHAKIR: He said: Surely you are of the respited ones.

007.016
YUSUFALI: He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
PICKTHAL: He said: Now, because Thou hast sent me astray, verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Thy Right Path.
SHAKIR: He said: As Thou hast caused me to remain disappointed I will certainly lie in wait for them in Thy straight path.

007.017
YUSUFALI: “Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies).”
PICKTHAL: Then I shall come upon them from before them and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left hands, and Thou wilt not find most of them beholden (unto Thee).
SHAKIR: Then I will certainly come to them from before them and from behind them, and from their right-hand side and from their left-hand side; and Thou shalt not find most of them thankful.

007.018
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.
PICKTHAL: He said: Go forth from hence, degraded, banished. As for such of them as follow thee, surely I will fill hell with all of you.
SHAKIR: He said: Get out of this (state), despised, driven away; whoever of them will follow you, I will certainly fill hell with you all.

Q1:How come Allah Switches to ‘He’ from ‘I’ in the above verses?
Q2:How come Pickthal and Shakir don’t use () but YusufAli implies that He =Allah.
Thank you.
The reason for my question is simple, Quran is the word of God/Allah. So far (uptil these verses) it was “I said”, “Allah Said” but in these verses it switches to He. I dont understand.

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

hmm it's like saying why the Qur'an uses "We said" when Allah is one..

Allah is the mightiest.. sometimes He chooses to talk about Himself in the third person.. nothing wrong with that.. See 2:33 as well..

[Verizon]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

Thanks it made sense in 2:33 since 2:30 onwards Allah switches to third person. I was not sure and the () really screw me up. Thanks for the insight.

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

I must say it's refreshing to see someone actually reading the Qur'an with an inquisitive mind rather than just consider it some formula for more "sawaab".

[Verizon]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

PA I know me man I aint gettin no sawab. I am the fuel for hell fire, that much I know. Just want to understand Quraan without tafsir. I will consult tafsir after reading Quraan. All the verses thatI have posted here and some that I have questions on, I have added them to a database so I can consult a tafsir and see the perspective/reasoning.
The reason I post them here is also to let people know/educate them from a different angle, and hear their views, but I find it dis-appointing that people take that as if I am criticizing Islam or being dis-respectful.
But I value your input, MiniMe's input and believe it or not Madhanee's input.

[Serendipiti]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

Verizon have u ever studied shakespear or chaucer?yes i know they r works of fiction but have u ever studied any literature?
Secondly its good u seek knowledge, but r u hoping for Islamic knowledge to be passed to u on GS?Surely when we apply to study wherever and at whatever level we want to know the reputation of the institution we are entering and with regard to religion I would also want to know people's bias and Boy r they biased here.
Thirdly u post questions, but i have yet to read answers (forgive me if i am generalising here)
If God wanted Quran to be read without hadees or tafseer, he would have opened the heavens and slapped the whole book on your head direct.
We seek knowledge from experts in everyother area, why not in this area too?

[Serendipiti]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

PA- do u mean the Quran should not b read just purely for sawaab if one wants to?

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

no i mean you can surely do it thinking you'd get it.. I see nothing in the Book itself that says it's for the purpose of "Sawaab".. it's for conveying a message.. we'd be missing the point entirely to make a "taaveez" out of it..

[FrozenFire]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

reading quran wont give u swaab....reading Quran is just for ur own information and knowledge ...and by following Quran and what it says and follow Quran in ur daily routine life is what ull get swaab for

[Verizon]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

@Serendipiti

Verizon have u ever studied shakespear or chaucer?yes i know they r works of fiction but have u ever studied any literature?
Secondly its good u seek knowledge, but r u hoping for Islamic knowledge to be passed to u on GS?Surely when we apply to study wherever and at whatever level we want to know the reputation of the institution we are entering and with regard to religion I would also want to know people’s bias and Boy r they biased here.
Thirdly u post questions, but i have yet to read answers (forgive me if i am generalising here)
If God wanted Quran to be read without hadees or tafseer, he would have opened the heavens and slapped the whole book on your head direct.
We seek knowledge from experts in everyother area, why not in this area too?

Yes I have read shake-spear and chow-sir.Very Boring give me modern american lit or a holy book or any non fiction current affair book.
Regarding second ? what if i do, is it a bad thing to ask ?s. There are multiple reasons to why I post questions that prompted you to ask.
What do you mean answers if I had answers I wouldnt ask the question, I do have opinions but they are not for the weak-hearted-emotional-young-fiery-brand-preaching-guppies.
I beg to differ with you regarding your statement about God wanting us to read Tasfeer and Hadees.
Maybe I dont consider anyone an expert just value opinions of a few.

[AQ]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

If you know the spoken Arabic of Quran and if you know the literary beauty of the langauge, these things are not even an issue.

The word used is Qaala translated into Said

now read fluently for this one example starting the conversation from Iblees-e-la’een (where it is understood that he is talking to no one other than Allah:swt: ):

*and Thou shalt not find most of them thankful. *

Said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all. "

does it make sense now?
The translations are done that way (the parenthesis way) to make things simpler and easier to understand for everyone.

[Verizon]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

^^ I see what you mean it makes sense, while on this topic a quick question why does Shakir has (state) in parenthesis compared to the others that don't?WHat does it mean?

[AQ]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

@Verizon

^^ I see what you mean it makes sense, while on this topic a quick question why does Shakir has (state) in parenthesis compared to the others that don’t?WHat does it mean?

The Arabic itself in that Ayah suggests that Yousuf Ali’s translation is more nearest (IMO) … Qaala u’khruj Minhaa mazoo’mum madhoora

Said: Get out of (here) disgraced and expelled

note: This conversation was taken place in the heavens and then he was told to leave the place forever, the state in which he was in so Shakir’s translation does make sense too.

[gupguppy]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

@Anwaar Qureshi

The word used is Qaala translated into Said

Qaala = ‘he said’ (not just ‘said’)

[Serendipiti]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

Verzi sweetie, chill, don't get emotional over it,
i asked if u studied shakespear not if u read it, my point was anyone who studies anything reads around it, about it, in reference to it.
to beg to differ is ur right, as is to choose ur own experts, at the end of the day that is all anyone can do- choose their own experts. Our dua remains that may God guide us all, ameen

[armughal]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

u need to learn arabic first if u wish to learn Quran....
simple translation isnt always perfect....

[CheGuvera]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

Do watch Bill Murray's Lost in Translation.....Also word polemic comes to mind. The modus operandi is not to study quran to understand it, rather to find flaws and contradictions to disprove it or show its mortality.

[Verizon]

Re: Sura 7 verse 12-18

^^ I think I am going to go and read the PAF version of Quraan maybe they covered the F16s over Ghazai Badr.