Super 7 has flown

Society Military and Strategic Issues
1

As some of you might know that FC-1 is expected to make its maiden test flight some time around June-July; post all the related news ansd articles regarding this project here.

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/fighter/fc1.asp

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FC-1/Super-7 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

NAME:
Westernised/Manufacturer name: FC-1
Export name: Super-7

TYPE: Single-seat, single-engine multirole fighter aircraft derived from the Chengdu J-7 (F-7)

MANUFACTURER: China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC), Pakistan’s Aviation Integrated Company (PAIC)

FC-1 structure and weapon configurations

SPECIFICATIONS

Crew: One
Wingspan: 9.00 m
Length: 14 m
Height: 5.10 m
Weight: Empty 6,321 kg; Normal take-off: 9,100 kg; Max take-off 12,700 kg; Max weapon payload 3,800 kg
Maximum Weapon Load: 3,600 kg
Maximum Speed: Mach 1.6
Range: Ferry range 3,000 km; Operational Radius 1,352 km
Service Ceiling: 16,500 m
Maximum Climb Rate: N/A
+G Limit: 8.5

PROGRAMME

In 1986 China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman to modernize its J-7 fighter under the so-called “Super-7” upgrade, but this agreement was cancelled in early 1990, in the wake of the cooling of political relations with the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project. As a substitute for the original Super-7, China is developing the FC-1 (Fighter China-1) lightweight multipurpose fighter based on the design for the Super-7, with assistant from the Russians.

The FC-1/Super-7 carrying two medium-range and two short-range AAMs (Mockup)

Meanwhile, a full-scale mockup of the FC-1 has been completed by CAC. According to the latest reports, the first prototype of FC-1 is currently under construction and expected to first fly in early 2003. The first FC-1 will be fitted with an Israeli Elta-2032 radar for fire-control test, and a Russian RD-93 turbofan engine. Chengdu has obtained two Elta-2032 systems and four RD-93 engines for initial evaluation and tests.

The FC-1/Super-7 is being developed with a total investment in excess of $150 million, including $75 million from Pakistan, with the rest investment from CATIC. The FC-1/Super-7 is mainly for export to replace the 120 F-7M/P fighters currently in service in the Pakistani Air Force, though it is possible that the Chinese Air Force will use this aircraft as well. Chengdu is co-operating with and Russia’s Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) in the development of the FC-1. Israel and several European countries are being considered as suppliers for the plane’s avionics.

According to the latest reports by the Chinese official media, the FC-7/Super-7 has entered initial production in September 2002. The first flight is expected to take place in 2003.

DESIGN FEATURES

Initially it was anticipated that the FC-1 would be a high-performance, low-cost fighter plane to replace outdated F-5s and MiG-21s in many third-world air forces. But with the participation of MASPG, the Russians are using the FC-1 as a continuation of the MiG-33 (R33) programme developed in the 1980s. Like the MiG-33, the FC-1 uses the RD-93 turbofans, though the FC-1 features air inlets on the lateral sides of the fuselage rather than the ventral inlets of the MiG-33. With Russian technical assistance the redesigned FC-1 has improved climb out performance and steering capabilities along with a stronger fuselage.

However, the most apparent modifications to the MiG-33 design is the repositioning of the ventral fins from the engine compartment to the added tail edgings, providing aerial manoeuvrability that is claimed to match that of the U.S. F-16. These improvements in performance have affected the programme’s costs, and if the final production order is fewer than 300 aircraft the unit price will rise from the original $10 million to $15 million.

The wooden mockup of the FC-1/Super-7 fighter

AVIONICS: Few venders are competing for supplying avionics to the FC-1/Super-7. Apart from Israeli Elta-2032, Italian FIAR company also revealed its Grifo S-7 fire-control radar on Singapore Asian Aerospace 2002. The Grifo S-7 is specially designed for the FC-1/Super-7, with 25 working modes and a non-break-down time of 200 hours. The radar is capable of look-down, shoot-down, as well as for ground strike, but without multi-targets tracing and attacking capabilities.

According to reports, the PLA Air Force variant of the FC-1 will certainly not be fitted with Elta-2032, therefore Russian Phazotron Kopyo radar and Italian Grifo are options available.

To achieve better aerodynamic performance, the FC-1/Super-7 is also equipped with a digital dual fly-by-wire (FBW).

ENGINE: One RD-93 turbofans, rated 49.4 kN dry or 81.4 kN with afterburning.

WEAPONS: Seven stores stations, one under the fuselage and six under the wing, up to 3,800 kg. Air-to-air missiles include: AIM-9P, PL-9, Magic-2 short-range AAMs; AIM-7E, Aspide.

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The Pakistani Versus
the Indian Fighter Pilot

By Rai Muhammad Saleh Azam

http://www.piads.com.pk/users/piads/azam1.html

“Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience.

– Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF
There seems to be a general consensus of opinion today that in a comparison of strength between the Indian and Pakistani air forces, the Indian advantage in numbers is counterbalanced by the Pakistani advantage in personnel, training, and tactics. Since India has been successful in narrowing the technology gap, which Pakistan possessed over India for three decades from the early 1960s to the late 1980s, some Pakistani defence policymakers have put even more emphasis on the perceived Pakistani advantage in personnel. In fact, some would argue that the Pakistani fighter pilot, his training, and his tactics are so superior that even though the Indians have now caught up in technology, the Pakistan Air Force still has an overall edge in combat capability as long as the quantitative edge does not proceed more than 3:1 in India’s favour.
This article examines that argument and provides some answers to difficult questions surfaced by this issue. Is it true that the Pakistani fighter pilot is inherently better than his Indian counterpart? Are Pakistani training programmes and tactics better? If the comparisons are true, how much of an advantage does the Pakistani pilot maintain, and how does one measure the difference? Is this advantage widening or narrowing? Finally, and most importantly, once the advantage is determined, how does one go about improving the PAF to ensure an even greater advantage?

To begin a comparison of the two countries’ fighter pilots’ capabilities is not an easy task. While it is quite common for a defence analyst to compare air forces based on the quantity and quality of weapons systems, it is very rare to find an objective study of pilot capabilities. In fact, most analyses quantify combat capability as a product of numerous factors, such as aircraft, logistics, maintenance, munitions, etc. But the human factor (pilot ability, training, and tactics) is rarely included because its measurement is very subjective and its impact on the equation so little understood. Few will argue, however, that differences in pilot capability do exist, and some aspects of the human factor should be included in the equation if we are to achieve accurate comparisons in combat capability.

The human factor, as it relates to Indian and Pakistani air combat capability, constitutes three main variables – (i) the inherent ability of the individual pilot, (ii) his training, and (iii) his tactics. These three variables, when added together, produce a pilot or “human factor” input to the overall effectiveness of a sortie or mission.

Let us now briefly look at each of these variables in turn.

Inherent Ability

The first variable is the inherent ability of the pilot, or put another way, the quality of the individual as a fighter pilot, given equal training and tactics. The pilot’s inherent ability is a product of the pilot selection process and the personnel assessment system that assigns and maintains the fighter pilot force. Compared to the Indian Air Force, the Pakistan Air Force does more pre-selection testing of personnel prior to their entering pilot training. Numerous and very difficult psychological, motor skills and other screening tests are given to measure inherent fighter pilot ability prior to selection for pilot training. Also, the Pakistan Air Force pilot selection is based on academic grades, officer-like qualities (OLQs), physical fitness and health and 20/20 vision. The pilot selection process, however, does not differentiate between skills necessary for fighter pilots and other pilots such as tactical transport or bomber pilots. This distinction made much later in the training cycle, is usually subjective, and can only select from those who have already been admitted into the programme. The PAF pilot selection system still suffers from the “universally assignable pilot” concept that has been around for years, known as the ‘General Duties Pilot’ or ‘GDP’ in PAF parlance.

When comparing the Pakistani pilot selection system with the Indians, one could safely say that India’s competition for pilot training slots is less competitive than Pakistan’s. The benefits after attaining the status of a fighter pilot in the Pakistan Air Force are some of the highest in the society. The PAF cadet colleges are considered among the best schools in the country, and military aviation is a highly sought-after and prestigious profession in Pakistan. According to the 1988 official history of the PAF, less than 1% of 6,500 (approximately 110) applicants are admitted into the PAF Academy, Risalpur every 6 months to train as fighter pilots (1). The significance of this input can also appreciated when one realizes that only the most academically sound and healthy candidates apply in the first place. Such is the stiff level of competition.

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http://www.piads.com.pk/users/piads/azam1.html
statement of Gen. Chuck Horner of the United States Air Force (USAF) and Commander of Allied Forces in the 1991 Gulf War in his biography by Tom Clancy, Every Man A Tiger:

“Iraqi pilot training came from three sources: France, Pakistan and the former Soviet Union. Lucky for us, Soviet training proved dominant, with their emphasis on rigid rules, strict command arrangements and standardized tactics. Coupled with this centralized approach, the Soviets were suspicious of non-Russians and disliked Arabs . . . There was, however, a wild card. Not all training came from the Russians. Iraqi pilots were trained well by their French and Pakistani instructors . . . Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready air forces in the world. They have to, their neighbour to the east is huge, and the two nations have a long history of hostilities. For Indian war planners, the Pakistan Air Force is their worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world, especially the Islamic world, because they know how to fly and fight. On one or two occasions, I had the opportunity to talk with Pakistani instructor pilots, who had served in Iraq. These discussions, didn’t give me great cause to worry. The Russian domination of training prevented the Pakistanis from having any real influence on the Iraqi aircrew training program. Still, there had to be a few Iraqi pilots, who had observed and listened to their mentors from France and Pakistan . . . It was those few, I was concerned about.” (10)

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Here's some good news..the FC-1 may make its debut test flight in August. I think the news comes from the Associated Press, though I couldn't find the link..

BEIJING (June 14 2003) : The 'Super-7' fighter aircraft, result of biggest-ever Sino-Pak joint venture, will undergo its test flight within the next couple of months.

Sources told APP in Beijing on Friday that Pakistan has about 50 percent share in developing 'Super-7', both in terms of financial contribution and technical know-how.

Under an agreement, the engineers of the two countries worked together completing the development and production of the aircraft with input from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

According to the Chinese media report, the Super-7 new generation fighter aircraft is expected to make its maiden test flight later this year.

A prototype of the 'all-weather, multipurpose lighter jet' has just been completed.

The new model represents China's most sophisticated light fighter for the 21st-century combat environment.

The single-seat, turbofan engine-powered fighter will go into volume production once tests have been successfully carried out.

"The Super-7 aims to gradually replace the F-7, MIG-21 and Q-5 series aircraft that are currently in service in both China and some other developing countries

A model of the military aircraft, which is also codenamed the Super-7/FC-1, debuted at an air show in Zhuhai in South China's Guangdong Province last year, reports China Daily.

It attracted keen interest from many visitors, the paper said, quoting Luo Ronghuai, president of the Chengdu aircraft manufacturer.

Compared with the F-7, Q-5 and other fighter aircraft series currently in use in China, the Super-7 features a larger weapon-load capacity and a greater radar-detection range and it is stealth-capable.

Its maximum external storage weight is 3.8 tons, and it boasts a radar-detection range of up to 100 kilometres, compared with the current jets' 30 kilometres.

The Super-7 is capable of carrying out the dual mission of air-to-air and air-to-surface attacks.

The cost-effective aircraft can be used as a fighter or a trainer.-APP

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ZAKK thanks for the indian fighter pilot vs Pakistani fighter pilot post, was really an interesting read.
all said and analyzed in the article, i'd like to just add that there's one more factor that is very important in the making and competence of not only a fighter pilot but any fighter. it is the conviction and sincerity to cause, faith and patriotism and by Allah's grace our fighters be they in the skies, seas or on ground will always be better fighters cause they have the spirit and conviction to fight which i'm afraid and hope our enemies such as india would not have much of in their fighters-the reason is that the non muslim warriors have nothing to do with the concept of jihad and shahadat while all our fighting concepts are based on the very concept of shahadat and no pakistani young man of 18 yrs ever joins the armed forces woithout secretly hoping to achieve the goals of shahadat. a person who has no interest in jihad would never ever make his life rough n tough by joining the military. so apart from the super competent training and technologicial modernization, this factor will inshAllah always give Pakistan's military an edge over non muslim forces.

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Re: FC-1 Strike Fighter Folder

NOW ITS PROTOTYPE IS EXPECTED TO FLY IN AUGUST !!!!

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Two things have changed since the last post on this topic was made :

  1. The FC-1 has been named JF-17 Thunder.
  2. The FC-1 has flown for the first time today ! Congratulations .
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It already flew… with success. Mashallah. Unlike Indian LCA, which has been in “developement” for more than 3 decades and failed many flights and still not good enough!

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There are more pictures but they are too big to upload… so here are the links:

picture 1

Picture 2

Picture 3

Enjoy!!! :wink:

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yes it did fly and i think Gen Musharraf is going to China for its offical handover to Pakistan

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Impressive stuff, I hope muslim countries continue to become self sufficent produce there own planes and tanks, it is without a doubt the best policy of defense and attack.

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Super 7 has flown

I"ve got a great news guys
Super 7 has finally made its flight!!!
Congratulations to every pakistani!!!
wahooooooooo
I can't stop smiling

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here are a few photos
I love to see this bird in air!

http://www.centurychina.com/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/plaboard/?cmd=get&cG=33634323838343&zu=33363432383730&v=2&gV=0&p=

http://tiexue.top81.com.cn/img3/2003-8-25155443.jpg

http://bbs.tongtong.net/uploadImages/20038...15563271043.jpg

http://tiexue.top81.com.cn/dspic/files/mdkP1040507.JPG

http://tiexue.top81.com.cn/dspic/files/112.JPG

http://www.wforum.com/wmf/posts/3891581.html

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don't post anythig that is not related to FC-1

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Congratulations! Alhamdulialh another step towards self reliance! May Allah make Pakistan and the rest of the Muslim world stronger!

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i read somewhere recently that the military commander in Pakistan heve decided to change the whole PAF fighter aricraft flet within a decade by Russian and chinese technology planes instead of the ones they have today i.e. the F-16, (major power), Mirage, F-7P etc. because the US is not delivering the F-16s Pakistan wants to buy!
Im having the wrong feeling about this, because whatever anyone else might make or create, the American technology is (accept it or not) the best around. I dont get what the problem with the US is. I think Pak even made some payment for the planes in the 80s.
F-16s are very important and Pakistan should think of acquiring some more US war planes too. But then again, i wonder what the reason behind America's stubborness is...?

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I saw the boradcast on Sino TV man was it cool, pitty it was in chinese!... Great platfrom and i saw the specs some time ago a true Low-High tec fighter!!! Go pakistan go, get some gas lets kick some ass!!!

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Celebrations…Congratulations! :slight_smile: :k:

PAF Rulez!!! :hula: :jhanda: :hula:

JF-17 fighter’s maiden flight next week

ISLAMABAD: Terming the maiden flight of JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, scheduled for the first week of September, a historical moment, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat said it will lay foundation of aeronautical industry in the country.

“This is a historical moment in the military aviation history of Pakistan and we are proud to announce that given the weather conditions, the maiden flight of JF-17 Thunder aircraft, which was previously known as Super-7, a joint venture of China and Pakistan, will take place in the first week of September,” Saadat told reporters at the Air Headquarters, while briefing them on the JF-17 Thunder project here on Saturday.

“As part of the programme we will be able to train engineers and pilots in the field of aircraft design, development, manufacturing and flight testing. This will contribute towards indigenisation, self-reliance in meeting the country’s defence requirement and enhancement of economic prosperity of Pakistan, which are totally in line with the government’s policy and our national aspiration,” the air chief said.

Most of the media people inquired about the F-16 aircraft, which have become the main area of concern in Pak-American relations and comparison with India’s light combat aircraft (LCA) project, which was started at least 20 years ago.

“The first prototype of the JF-17 will fly in September and then the second one in two months time, and the aircraft will keep on flying on experimental basis for the constant accumulation of required data, until the Pakistan Air Force is confident of its operational performance. This gestation period is required before starting serial production in January 2006,” Saadat added.

Comparing the JF-17 with the Indian LCA, the air chief said the LCA avionics are five years older than the JF-17.

“The LCA could make its first flight after 20 years while JF-17 shall achieve this distinction within eight years of the programme’s initiation, which is a record in the history of development of modern fighter aircraft and India has so far invested $1.5 billion, whereas total development cost of JF-17 is only $450 million. We have exercised strict financial discipline in JF-17 project.” About the technical strength of the PAF, he said: “Pakistan Air Force is equipped with many modern aircraft and it will keep on replacing its fleet with whatever modern equipment and weapons it requires in future also. Like the JF-17 will replace the F-7, Mirage and A5 aeroplanes.”

He said high-tech aircraft or fourth generation planes would still need to be inducted in the PAF fleet. “We have submitted our proposals to the president and prime minister, who are very supportive of our future goals. We are looking for high-tech aircraft, and the final decision will be taken with mutual consultations keeping in view the economic conditions and multiple factors.”

About the delivery of F-16s by US, he said: “We keep on telling America about our needs to have F-16 aircraft in our fleet, and we will keep asserting our point on them.”

However, he said the JF-17 is equipped with the most modern avionics package and weapons, as compared to F-16, which are now 20 years old. “However, since it is a smaller aeroplane with fuel limitation so it has a lesser range.”

“We have a sufficient number of aircraft to carry nuclear weapons, though these weapons can only be used when there is an absolute necessity for that,” said Saadat, who advised that one should not talk about using nuclear weapons. “These are not hand-grenades,” he added. Saadat said the objective of the PAF is clearly defined and India did not dare last year to launch an attack. In such a scenario, he said, Indians would have met with a response causing great damage. “Indians failed to attack alleged terrorist camps due to operational readiness of the PAF fighting machine,” he said.

He described safety measures in the PAF as quite satisfactory, though the rate of accident and loss of planes was little high in the last few years. “We lost some aircraft at low altitude, though the accident rate in Indian Air Force is always higher compared to the PAF.”

On women pilots in PAF, he said two women pilots would start training flights of Mashak within six months.

Earlier, giving a briefing about the aircraft, the Chief Project Director JF-17, Air Vice Marshal Shahid Latif said the project was started in collaboration with China to gain exposure in fighter aircraft design and development through participation in the programme, to develop local aviation industry by co-producing the aircraft and to gain self-sufficiency in the production of fighter aircraft.

Highlighting the importance of the aircraft, he said, “The JF-17 was planned to be the replacement of ageing fleet of the PAF. JF-17 is a lightweight, all weather, multi-role aircraft, which can fly at the speed of Mach 1.6 and has high thrust to weight ratio.”

He said the aircraft would be able to engage targets at all speeds and altitudes within the conventional flying envelope. “In surface attack and interdiction role the aircraft will be capable of striking at long distances.” Among the existing PAF aircraft, he said, this performance is matched by the F-16s only. “It is installed with an advanced control system, which is a mix of conventional and fly-by-wire controls making it highly agile and manoeuvrable.”

AVM Latif said the aircraft would be capable of carrying short range, beyond visual range, anti-ship as well as radiation missiles. “Additionally, the carriage of high and low drag bombs, laser guided bombs, runway penetration bombs and cluster bombs would be catered for. These weapons would be carried in various combinations as dictated by mission requirement.”

He said the JF-17 would be equipped with state-of-the-art avionics package to provide an all-weather navigation and attack capability. “It will provide a high degree of survivability through automated system of threat detection, analysis and counter-threat measures. The avionics would also enable effective management of weapons and firepower.”

He said the principles of co-production were clearly defined in the JF-17 airframe development contract. “There is an agreement between Pakistan and China that the aircraft would be co-produced in the two countries. The contract gives the PAF the right to produce 50 per cent of the airframe with an option to go even up to 100 per cent production,” he added.

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The newly built combat aircraft JF-17 Thunder

It’s COOL :k: :jhanda: :hula:

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Mashallah! :jhanda:

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Hey ppl

JF-17 has made its first official flight
It was shown today on CCTV-4

congratulations pakistani brothers!