Sunni Perspective on Shia Traditions

[Das_Reich]

Re: Sunni Perspective on Shia Traditions

@PyariCgudia

I don’t want this to be a shia - sunni debate, especially in light of horrors being inflicted on shias in Pakistan.

(I know it will end up becoming a mud hurling event, eventually, so I ask mods shut it down when it starts inching that way).

I am talking to a guy who has a shia mom and sunni dad and somehow brings together the two traditions and it’s impressive, I just want to see what the sunni perspective is on traditions in Muharram.

So here are my questions:

1. What does a Majlis consist of ? What’s the purpose of this tradition? What is done during the day of Majlis? Which days is it done on and how many days?

2. My dad is telling me that Majlis can even be held by sunnnis, and when my dad was growing up in Pakistan, they held Shaam e ghareeban in sunni mosques as well.

3. Do Sunnis hold that Muawiyah was corrupt and trying to get his son into leadership? And that his treatment of Imam Hasan was wrong? Is there evidence he was involved in Ali (R)'s murder?

4. My understanding is both sunnis and shias agree that Yazid was corrupt and a total disaster. Is that right?

5. If Shias come from the camp that supported Imam Hussain during Karbalah, then what camp do Sunnis come from? Do we automatically come from the Muawiyah camp? Can you be Sunni and simply not think Muawiyah was a fit leader, and that he may have been corrupt?

6. Do Sunnis recognize that historically that Hasan and Hussain SHOULD have been caliphs over Muawiyah? Or if you believe that, does that make you Shia? Could it mean you just have a political opinion and it doesn’t make you shia or sunni?

7. The Shias discount hadith of Abu Hurairah. Can you be Sunni and also consider it suspect that Abu Huraira managed to collect SO MANY hadith and that some of these hadith, especially the anti-female ones, may be inaccurate of the real sunnah of the Prophet?

8. Can Sunnis do Majlis? Can they commemorate the events that happened in Muharram and recount the history of the atrocities that happened to Imam Hussain and Imam Hassan without necessarily believing in some sort of infallibility or divinity of Ali (R)?

9. Do all Shias have a different Kalima where they add the Ali (R) part to the end of the Kalimah?

so many issues where to start

majlis is a Persian word and Persian influence in indo-pak muslims sunni and shia is very deep remember it was the court language for moguls who were sunni
in early Pakistan days till 70s the shia influence was very strong esp in the media so seemed like all Pakistan was shia after revolution in iran there was a sunni reawakning and this led to a puritanical tendency in the middle classes and shunning of many rituals perceived as “unislamic” including most shia inspired rituals

who becomes a caliph is not an article of faith for sunnis the caliph is not divinely appointed so its theoretically a more egalitarian process e.g many sahaba and tabaeen supported Ali over uthman and vice versa

but shias who is first imam is article of faith

sunnis TODAY hold respect for ALL sahaba including muawiyah but that does not mean only imami shias had a problem with muawiyah historically remember the Ansar,party of ibn zubair, notable tabeen of Iraq who are PILLARs of Hadith in ahle Sunnah works were anti-ummayyad.But liking or hating any personality IS NOT THE REAL DISPUTE at all , the main dispute is the imami shia concept of Imamate.

When Umar b abdulaziz RA became caliph he fostered a policy of forgive and forget this laid the basis of the sunni respect for ALL sahaba as a way to recouncile the warring parties of Syria ( pro-ummayyad) and Iraaq/hijaz( pro-Alid, ibn zubayr) it was a way to move on and btw umar II was very generous to banu hashim and genuinely tried to build bridges.But once the concept of divine imamate took hold amongst imami shias then the condemnation of the earlier caliph became a doctrinal necessity as they per imamis violated a divine command of Ali’s appointment.This is in stark contrast to most disputes in the times of Ali between his supporters and those of mauwiayah which revolved mostly around corruption, nepotism of uthman and his relatives.

yazid was great to the Syrian arab tribes but a disaster in hijaz and Iraq where he tried to continue the policy of his father “divide and rule” but it did not work, ummayyads don’t recover these areas until abdulmalik b Marwan.