Wanted to get a couple of viewpoints about this.
What does the Koran say about this? (various interpretations?)
Where does the 72 virgins waiting for the bomber in paradise thing come from? Why 72?
What about female suicide bombers, do they get 72 male virgins?
Thanks.
not 72, they will get that many as many they want. number is not meantioned in Quran, I don't know where people got it from. in heaven all blessings will be unlimited...
about if woman will get males, I don't know.. I asked my grandmother same question years ago when i was a kid. I asked her "men will get hoars(women with big eyes) what will we get????she said "you will know it when you will grow up" but I still don't know.
[This message has been edited by secret_obsession (edited March 22, 2002).]
Well, I think they are doing out of ignorance, desperation, hatred or just craziness but I don't think they are doing it for 72 Virgins or whatever.
I think those who send them knowingly are comtemptible people.
Suicide bombing is discussed today without there being an established school of thought on the matter. Some people still believe that it is not acceptable, although i think (in my opinion) that numbers who subscribe to this are increasingly in a minority.
The justification from this comes from examples of when the Sahaba (companions of the Prophert, peace and blessings be upon him) would charge the enemy regardless of how outnumbered they were and how helpless their situation seemed.
It is not allowed to turn your back on the battlefield and hence death is almost certain in some scenario's. Islam prohibits suicide because it contradicts the words of Allah, the exalted when He (swt) says in the glorious Qu'ran that He(swt) does not place a burden greater than any soul can bear. However, those who engage in suicide bombings (hence forth referred to as martyr operations) do not do so because of this reason. They do so because they are engaged in Jihad, a war, against the occupying forces.
The nature of the occupation in Palestine means that the Jihad there is defensive. When there is defensive Jihad it becomes fard (obligatory) on those in the vicinity to engage in the Jihad and defend the honour of the Muslims and to liberate the land. Hence, for the sincere brothers and sisters engaged in the Jihad against occupying forces they are responding to the command of Allah (swt). Martyr's seek the pleasure of Allah (swt), His (swt)'s mercy and blesings.
I have heard that for the male martyr that he is married to 70 virgins in paradise. However, Secret Obsession makes an interesting point and this figure of 70 I have no textual evidence to support with so I can't say it is anything other than something that I have heard. I will seek clarification.
When we discuss the female martyr we don't know what lies in store for her exactly. i.e. Will she receive 70 male virgins?
To consider this question think of it like this. We only know about Heaven and Hell what Allah (swt) chose to reveal. There is plenty that has not been revealed which we simply know nothing about and cannot even begin to speculate over.
You might well ask, why didn't Allah (swt) reveal what lies in store for the sisters?
Again, this quesiton is incorrect. To answer it would require an understanding of the nature of Allah (swt). And as before, all we know about Him (swt) is what he has chosen to reveal!
We simply don't know why Allah, the exalted, chooses to do something or why He (swt) chooses not to do something.
Where do all the virgins come from?
Are you supposed to have sex with them?
What do you do with them when you get them?
underthedome,
[quote]
What does the Koran say about this? (various interpretations?)
[/quote]
Quran does not address suicide directly, though there are verses that can be interpreted as against suicide. One which says; do not destroy yourself (Chapter 2: Verse 195) is commonly quoted. Many sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) are quoted as against taking one's own life.
Taking innocent lives is strongly condemned at many different places; one which categorically rejects such notions as suicide bombing says; "...whosoever killed a person - unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land - it shall be as if he killed all mankind; and whoso saved a life, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind..."(5:32)
[quote]
Where does the 72 virgins waiting for the bomber in paradise thing come from? Why 72?
What about female suicide bombers, do they get 72 male virgins?
[/quote]
The answer to this is far easier than you think. Everyone, regardless of which 'sect' or 'ideology' within Islam they adhere to, will testify that paradise is spiritual in nature & for the soul, not the body. And soul has no gender.
When there is no body or gender, then what use are 72 virgins (male or female) worth?
Mostly such fabrications are fantasies of Mullah (the priests), they have no relation to Islam.
Though Quran talks about paradise but in parables like the Holy books before Quran have done so.
The Godfather,
[quote]
The justification from this comes from examples of when the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him) would charge the enemy regardless of how outnumbered they were and how helpless their situation seemed.
[/quote]
I disagree. This example of Sahaba (Companions of the Holy prophets) does not relate to the suicide bombers even remotely.
Actually the conduct of Sahabah (ra) and the Holy prophet (peace be upon him) is totally the opposite of today’s suicide boomers.
The Holy Prophet (saw) and his companions tried their best to live peacefully among the Pagan Meccans but due to consistent persecution were forced out of their homes & so they decided to migrate to Medina.
Even though they had the right to fight for their homes, their property and their land, they chose not to do so ... just for the sake of peace. And left Mecca and migrated to Medina.
But the Pagans didn't leave them alone and haunted them down in Medina. Still you will not find a single incident where any of the Sahabas went back to Mecca and created violence or disorder. On the contrary, those who stayed in Mecca faced the daily persecution with patience and prayers! There is a history where the Pagans would torture them, only due to their faith, and in return the great companions of the prophet would return them prayers!
Secondly, the battles you are talking about are those, which were waged by the Pagans of Mecca against Muslims outside Medina and Muslims fought them in total self-defense. The two armies fought face to face, nothing like the sneak attacks of suicide boomer.
fighting against an army is allowed....
but even killing civillians is NOT allowed in a war....
then how cud it possibly be right to go and do a suicide bombing on a school or in a hotel????
as someone mentioned, it is just craziness....
and please do see that there is difference between fighting in a war and suicide bombing....
"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." **Quran(3:147)
There is an area in the cosmos known as the 70 Virgins in the constellation of Virgo. It is an interesting parellel to the story and just speculation on my part. The killing of civilians is an abhorant way of conducting resistance by anyone. Even the Palestinians ought not to chose this method despite the actions of the nasties in Israel. The quote from the Qu'ran seems to speak to conflict involving armies in a classic sense. The death of civilians is tragic when done by accident and should be kept to a minimum at all times.
[This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited March 23, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
**There is an area in the cosmos known as the 70 Virgins in the constellation of Virgo. It is an interesting parellel to the story and just speculation on my part. The killing of civilians is an abhorant way of conducting resistance by anyone. Even the Palestinians ought not to chose this method despite the actions of the nasties in Israel. The quote from the Qu'ran seems to speak to conflict involving armies in a classic sense. The death of civilians is tragic when done by accident and should be kept to a minimum at all times.
[This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited March 23, 2002).]**
[/quote]
look here mr american this is another big misconception or a delibrate propaganda by some anti islamic lobby that wants to say that the sucide bomber is blowing himself up for the 70 awaiting virgins this is bullshit
you people fail tto understand the pychology of a sucide bomber or a muslim who decides to end his life the way he does.
does this person the would be bomber does not have family? doesnt he like to live long and enjoy the pleasures of world as any human being would?
what drives this person to take this extreme step of blowing himself up?
the answer is there is a cause there is a reason why this man ends his life the way he does. he loves his religion and more than the religion he loves his fellow muslims who are under occupation who are being sluaghtered by the enemy. who are armed with sophisticated weapons and ruthless.
he sees no choice. look today whats happening in india muslims are being massacared and america is not interested because it does not affect the american interest. for 5 years bosnia was plundered raped slaughtered but america remained mute witness american mothers were not ready for causualties of your soldiers. and most americans including your dubya never knew whether afghanistan is in asia or africa.
after sept 11 hurt the americans and that brought this massive response.tommorow if right wing hindus attack americans then usa will wake up the its threat.
only a pervert will think of killing himself for those 70 virgins
you need some introspection and the same time look at the world from a muslim perspective and you will get answers for many things that face this world and usa
[quote]
Originally posted by MMike:
**Where do all the virgins come from?
Are you supposed to have sex with them?
What do you do with them when you get them?**
[/quote]
virgins are already there (in heaven). and yeaha they will have sex there.
Ahmedjee, heaven is a spirtuial or whatever place. But I have clearly read in hadies that they will have sex there.
kabir; you said well, but you didn't had to be that rude.
Kabir,
You are right that it’s not in anyway the 72 virgins that anyone would take away his life for. Though I still do not agree with your reasoning or justification of suicide bombing.
As I explained above, the Holy Prophet (saw) and his Sahaba (ra) were far more persecuted than Muslims anywhere in the world today, and that was only for their faith. They were driven out of their homes, molested, killed, tortured etc. but they never took matters in their own hands.
Let me give you the example of Hazrat Bilal (ra), who was a slave and his masters would torture him daily for his faith. Well built and a strong man he could have retaliated and easily killed a dozen before they could get him down but he didn’t choose to do so. Just like most of the other Sahaba didn’t chose to do so.
So, these men have every right to go struggle for their land but killing themselves along with a few others (sometimes innocent civilians) is no solution to the problem, certainly not an Islamic way. They are actually giving in to the hardships of life and cowardly taking the short route out.
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[This message has been edited by reza khan (edited March 23, 2002).]
I think the suicide bombers are insane savage fanatic humans that kill innocent Israelis and hurt the Palestinian cause. I think it kills their credibility in the eyes of most of the civilized world. This and their inability to form a collective voice.
A few weeks ago, Israel invaded the refugee camps and the Palestinians attacked military check points with sniper attacks. I thought this was a respectable and more productive response on the part of the Palestinians.
Israel was out of bounds and the Palestinians answered with credible and effective attacks on military targets!
If this suicide bombing has been the Palestinian approach it fails, and has failed for 50 years right?
I mean the whole world just stands by and allows this occupation to happen.
Actions speak louder then words and the actions of the world is to condone the occupation and do nothing.
Maybe they should look into a new strategy?
I cannot see a loving God condoning suicide bombers, terrorists or militants at all.
God must be for peace.
A loving God tells its people to fight the enemies of Islam, the invaders of Islamic land and those people who killed his followers. Our God indeed is for peace.
Re: 70 virgins
This is response on Pakistan link:
The reward in heaven will be for all the believing and pious men and women. In chapter al-Ahzab (33:35) Allah has mentioned various categories of believers from among the men AND women and then He says, "Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward." Allah says that the Believers will have there whatever their souls desire and whatever will please their eyes. (al-Zukhruf 43:71). So rest assured there is great reward for every one. Whatever is mentioned is only SYMBOLIC to make us imagine the beauty and greatness of Allah's reward, otherwise heaven contains that which is beyond our total imagination and grasp here in this finite world. Allah says in the Quran, "No soul knows what is kept hidden for them of joy, as a reward of what they used to do." (al-Sajdah 32:17)
There are many many misconceptions of the israeli/paliestinians conflict, especially through the media plz try and find out more abt this and follow your hearts, as for suicide bombers, i live in a western society so i am forced to think from other noot only muslim points of view, u must put ureself in the persons position and think abt what they must be going through how desperate they mustve been to have given their lives away, i havee seen what attrocities isaelis can commit, if u would like to know more or discuss anything with me whether i am saying anything wrong plz mail me i would appreciate it i think every1 should keep an open mind on all issues
Sharon’s constant attacks on Palestinians continue unabated: more than 101
Palestinians have been killed in the first 8 days of this month.
Since 1 March, Sharon has attacked refugee camps in Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah,
Tulkarem, Bethlehem and Gaza, as well as air strikes on other civilian
areas.
Daily Palestinian death toll:
1 March 2002 11
2 March 2002 6
3 March 2002 5
4 March 2002 18
5 March 2002 6
6 March 2002 16
7 March 2002 18
8 March 2002 21
Emergency Relief under Attack: threatening more Palestinian lives
The constant attacks on Palestinians, most recently in Tulkarem (Thursday)
and Gaza and Bethlehem (Friday), expose further Sharon’s total disregard for
international law. Attacks on emergency services have been extreme: in
Tulkarem, 1 UN and 2 PRCS ambulances were attacked, killing the driver/First
Aid provider, Ibrahim Asa’d, and injuring 2 other medical personnel. Kamal
Salim (36), a UN nurse was also killed. This paralysis of emergency service
resulted in an extremely high death toll of 18 as Palestinians died when
injuries were untreated.
Early today, the Israeli army raided Khan Younis in Gaza, killing 18
Palestinians and again preventing medical services from reaching the
injured, and opening fire on 1 ambulance; a MoH ambulance driver Said
Shalayal (26) was killed. Ahmad Abu Sneid, who was shot in the leg, was one
of those Palestinians left to bleed to death because of denial of access to
medical services.
In Bethlehem, the Israeli army attacked Aida and Khader refugee camps, has
occupied Beit Jala and A-Dauha and surrounded Dheisha and Azza refugee
camps. Israeli soldiers are conducting house to house searches, (as in
Balata and Jenin); 3 Palestinians have been killed so far.
Sharon is conducting a step-by-step massacre of Palestinians: this is a
gradual repetition of his vicious - and internationally condemned -1982
attacks on Sabra and Shatila. Currently, Sharon is acting with a free hand.
International intervention is essential.
8 Days (since 1 March) 101 Palestinians killed
Total number Palestinians killed to date: 1180 (figures based on
information available at time of writing)
For more information, contact Dr Mustafa Barghouthi 059 254 218 or see www.palestinemonitor.org
...
[This message has been edited by secret_obsession (edited March 23, 2002).]
I do not retract anything I posted, to which you responded. The American audience is now more aware of the situation in Palestine than ever before. Personally, I now understand it far better than ever before, due to some effort on my part. The point I was trying to make about the Islamic reference to the virgins is not a mockery, as you may infer, but a comment on what Islam may really mean by it. It implies that the religion may in fact be more amazing than the literal words written down. I am completely aware of the psychology of desperate people and the empathy of fellow Muslims to it. I have been looking at the Muslim perspective since 9/11. The US stand on Bosnia was condemnation of it before taking action. You must understand geopolitics first, to properly criticize the latent response of the West. The opinion of the mighty super power of the US does not always translate into something that we can just automatically embark on, despite what the world thinks. Given the fact that G. Bush was in the oil business, I think he knew where Afganistan and Central Asia were located before 9/11. He may get confused but has risen above expectations in my opinion, at least to his capabilities. He is more of a class act than I had thought. Maybe he needed the position of president before he could achieve his fullest potential.
[This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited March 24, 2002).]