Is it those people who are in close contact with the spiritual world? Is it the people who can contact the other existence in this world? Can someone explain this to me?
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
Love happens once . . .
No superstition in Islam. More info on this sect later on, check out a thread by me subject was: Naqshbandi Tareeka unvailed its about 1-2 months back.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**“Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished…”**Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
I hope you all know (check out your history books), how Islam spread in the Indo-Pak subcontinent. It was not spread by Muhammad bin Qasim, or by soldiers, or by sword, or by debators or by partially-educated misguided emotional youth.
Islam was spread in the Indo-Pak by the sufis, the scholars of Islam. Hindus embraced Islam, not because they were impressed by the finer details of islamic sharia. No. They converted because of these sufis, because of the simple teahings of one-ness of Allah and equality of mankind.
Everything is done based on the will of Allah. Allah uses many instruments to carry out His Plan. These sufis, who some of you love to redicule, are the instruments and the reason that most of us are muslims today. Those who are from India-Pakistan, check out your family tree and you will know that your fore-fathers were hindus and converted to Islam on the hands of these very sufis.
You can debate with non-muslims till you are blue on the face. You can tell them about sharia, and Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) and the greatness and truth of Islam. Tell us how many you are able to convert. Debates never convert a person to the truth. Its the will of Allah. One look by these sufis in the eyes of non-believers was enough for them to convert to Islam. Haven’t you heard the famous saying:
Nigah-e-mard-e-momin say badal jatee hein taqdeerein
These sufis, they were blessed by Allah. One look by these sufis, and masses of hindus converted to Islam. Their character was beyond reproach. And they were scholars of Islam too. They had complete knowledge about Islamic sharia, quran and sunnah. I am talking about sufis like Abdul Qadir Jilani, Ali Hajveri, Sheikh Mujadad Alif Sani and many others. Read their books and their teachings and you will understand the depth of their knoweldge and their comprehension about the finer points of Islam and love of Allah Ta’alla.
Do not confuse sufism with half-naked, long-haired, old men, carrying a stick and beating ppl left, right and center - the incorrect concept of sufis. These are not sufis, these are ‘majzoob’ (those whose minds is unable to comprehend the truth for various reasons). The real sufi will be a person who is 100% follower of sharia.
The disinformation about sufis is wide-spread, helped no doubt, due to great abuse to this concept by fraud peers and fakeers. For correct info on sufism, you should search the internet. For some basic understanding of terms and history, check out Traditions. For more advanced information, check out Many Paths
[This message has been edited by Peacemaker (edited February 18, 2001).]
He is talking about the Sufism the sect, not the those that we call sufis in Pakistan. Now adays a person who has a beard is considered a sufi - in sub-continent.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
Peacemaker, I found your comments very interesting and agreeable. As you rightfully point out, there needs to be some effort in trying to give an accurate description of these kind of people without generalising some subgroups of Muslims to the whole group itself. Then it will be more clear where they stand in the view of Islam.
I have come across many works by Hadhrat Abdul Qadir Jilani, and I have accessed much of the info provided on the web about him. I have many of his books from Al-Baz publicatons. From my limited understanding, he was one person who emphasised that engaging in "Sufi" beliefs was useless if even the partial tenets of the Shariah were ignored. But I cannot seem to obtain much information on him from other sources who are not necessarily connected with him. Can you help?
They shoot partypoopers, don't they?
Sufism is often, willfully or otherwise, referred to by Sufis themselves, or by orientalists, sa "Islamic mysticism", in order to give the impression that Islam is either wholly or partly an esoteric religion, with a set of dogmatic rituals to be understood by the elite alone-in this clase, the Sufis! Unfortuanetly, the lack of any sound critical analysis of the subject in the English language allows these orientalists to flood the English and North American book market with literature that stands unchallenged, and dupes naive Muslims into believing that true salvation can only be attained by pursuing a mystical order. Their vain goal strips Islam of its Universality.
True Muslims should be content with the name "Muslims given to them by Almighty Allah as he says: which means,
*"He has chosen you (to conform to His religion) and has imposed no difficulty upon you in religion, the religion of your father Ibrahim. He named you 'Muslims' both before (in the preceding Divine Scriptures) and in this Book." *(22.78)
Ibn Kathir elaborated on this verse, saying:
"Allah has chosen the Muslims, honoured them, and distinguished them exclusively of other nations by the most honourable Messenger and the most perfect religion, and He has not overburdened them with more than they can bear.
If Sufis insist that they are Muslims, then what is the sense of identifying themselves with Sufism rather than with Islam. The word "Sufism" was not familiar to those who lived in the first and the best three generations of as-Salaf as-Salih (the pious predecessors) who were commanded by Allah the Exalted and His Messenger (s.a.w).
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
I don’t think it will be a good idea if we equate the beliefs and practices of one group of people to the whole “Sufi” thing. As you may already know, there are several Sufi orders that have existed. The Naqshbandi Tariqat is only one of them. Furthermore, true Sufi’s never ever call and label themselves as Sufi’s. A person who calls himself a Sufi, is definitely not a Sufi. I say this because real “Sufi’s” tend to have astonishing levels of taqwa which necessarily precludes the fact that they cannot boast about it.
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
PP, I agree. There are those sufis the one of them is Naqshbandi which believes that their sheikhs are always in contact with the dead and Allah!
As you stated there are many other firkaas which existed within sufism. And now adays it just has become a joke and people refer to a person with beard as sufi as a joke.
They are mainly found in turkey, right?
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
As Partypooper pointed out, a sufi never calls himself a sufi. They always refer to themselves as muslims.
Sufi'ism or tareeqat is not for everyone. This is just the next step after you have reached the height of taqwa and are 100% on sharia. Even then, you can just remain on sharia and be blessed. Tareeqat is for those who feel there is something more in Islam, something which fills the inherent need of man for spiritiual closeness with the Creator - Allah Ta'alla - and His messanger - Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). These are complex issues, and for the most parts a muslim should just try to attain taqwa and be compliant with sharia.
Since spitituality can not be demonstrated by worldly provisions, hence the chance of error is enhanced. The risk of abuse is even greater. To those who don't understand it, it doesn't make sense. But for those who are blessed by Allah, and reached the amazing closeness to Allah by methods of tareeqat, there is no turning back. But then again, this is not for every one.
Partypooper... I will have to research on your question, as I don't have an answer right now. If I get a good reference material, I will let you know.
Secondly, the term 'Sect' is grossly misused. Many proponents of unity in Islam use those term to show their distaste for factions.... This is all fine.
But there is a differnce between sects and scholarly difference of opinion between learned men.
Technically, the four major schools of thought in Ahle-Sunnah (Hanafi, Hanbli, Shafai, Maaliki) are not sects.
The two major sects in Islam are Ahle-Sunnah (sunnis) and Shi'ites.
Similarly, the different ways of tareeqat (Naqshbandi, Qadri, Chisti etc) are not sects. These are simply different ways to get to the same manzil. Almost all silsilas of tareeqat belong to Ahle-Sunnah.
[This message has been edited by Peacemaker (edited February 18, 2001).]
Peacemaker are you aware of Jalal-uddin al-Rumi (d. 1273), an infamous Sufi philosopher, in his book Masnawi, confirms his belief in the theory of evolution. The following lines are recognized as the central theme of Rumi's work:"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as a plant and rose to an animal,
I died as an animal and I was a man.
What became the darwinian theory states that the origin of species is derived by descent, with variation from parent forms. In other words, man, according to the theory of Darwin and contrary to what Allah confirms in the Qur'an, was not created as a separate species.
Allah the Exalted says: Verily, We created man from an extract of clay. Then We placed him as a drop of sperm in a safe depository."
Making a claim of being on sheria and actually being on sheriah is different.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
Also you said, "they are just one of the many ways to get to the manzil"
Manzil would be Paradise.
Don't you remember that hadith in which prophet drew a straight line and than he drew some more branching lines into it and he said this(straigh line) is my way follow it and you will go to jannah and if you go to these branching lines at the end of each line there is sheitan sitting for you and you shall enter hell.
Meaning there is ONLY one way to go the manzil and that is adhering to QURAN and SUNNAH and not chisti way or sufi way or this way and that way. THERE iS ONLY ONE WAY. NOt more than one.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited February 18, 2001).]
Joining of Man with his creator ALLAH? Really, how do we do that?
Here is what famous scholars of islam said about Sufism:
Imaam Ash-Shaa'fee:
"If a person excercized Sufism (Tasawafa) at the beginning of the day, he does not come to Dhuhur except an idiot."
[Talbees Iblees].
"Nobody accompanied the Sufis forty days and had his brain return (ever)."
[Talbees Iblees].
Concerning the famous Sufi leader, Al-Harith Al-Muhasbi, Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbaal (R) said:
"Warn (people) from Al-Harith (a Sufi leader) the strongest warning!... He is the shelter of the Ahl Kalaam (people of rhetoric)."
[Talbees Iblis].
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited February 18, 2001).]
There are all types of sufis in this world.
As stated earlier... the potential for abuse in this is much higher, because there is no corroborative proof. The existence of fake proves that the original exists (you won't find a $7 bank note, cz no original exists, just as an example).
You can look at all the fake peers and fakeers and form your opinion. Or you can read the works of real muslims who we can classify as sufis.
Point being... as stated again and again... there are always things we don't understand, because no person has complete knoweldge. Its best to assume our lack of knowedge rather than criticize upon works of those who are far more ahead of us in comprehension and understanding of Islam.
[This message has been edited by Peacemaker (edited February 18, 2001).]
I am sooooooooooooooo confused!!!!
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
Love happens once . . .
So why don't you try to explain this joining of MAN WITH GOD(ALLAH)?
I am so eager to learn. I admit my knowledge of this superstitious sect(sufism) is very limited.
Tell me how your sheikh is in contact with Allah?
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
It is extremely difficult, nay impossible, to talk about this stuff over a BB.
Just for starters, lets talk about one small question, a ver basic question.
Why do we pray Namaaz?
Here are some of the typical answers:
Because it is farz.
Because it is ordered by Allah Ta’alla in the Quran.
Because it is ordered by Allah Ta’alla and practised by the Prophet (SAWW).
Because it is the first thing about which we will be asked on the day of judgement.
Because if you don’t pray, you will be a kaafir and will be put to the hellfire.
We pray because if we don’t, Allah will not listen to our du’a.
Are any of these answers wrong? No. They are all correct.
But there is also another answer.
Allah Ta’allah created us. He blessed us with uncountable n’ema (blessings). He loves us as He is our creator. And we should love Him as much as possible. We pray because we love our creator. We pray because we are thankful to Him. We pray because this is a gift from Him to us. Salat is a gift given during the Meraj.
So, we pray - not due to FEAR, but for LOVE. Love for Allah Ta’alla. If you do something for love, will it ever be a chore for you?
Does it make any sense to you?
This is just one illustration to show how love of Allah alters the way we think. And the way we approach our responsibilities. This is the basics of what we call Sufi’ism (whereas this is just Islam, nothing else)
(I have to go now, so I won’t be posting anymore today.)
You say there is hidden knowledge in islam that not every person is aware of and this sheikhs and sufis are.
When Allah says in Quran: I have completed your religion and bestowed my favor upon you and have chosen Islam as your religion…
Do you think allah will leave out the hidden knowledge..so the “sufies” who will come after the Mohammad, after the sahba, will manifest the hidden knowledge that in Islam and which our prophet(pbuh) and Allah never told us about in Quran or sunnah of our Prophet(pbuh)?
Could you bring some quranic proofs that there is something called hidden knowlege and something that a person cannot get from Quran.
I doubt that there is such veres in Quran. All we need to know about Islam is in Quran and in Sunnah of Mohammad(pbuh).
Anyway, lets see if you have quranic proofs.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**“Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished…”**Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
[quote]
Originally posted by Peacemaker:
**1.
We pray because if we don't, Allah will not listen to our du'a.
Are any of these answers wrong? No. They are all correct.
But there is also another answer.
Allah Ta'allah created us. He blessed us with uncountable n'ema (blessings). He loves us as He is our creator. And we should love Him as much as possible. We pray because we love our creator. We pray because we are thankful to Him. We pray because this is a gift from Him to us. Salat is a gift given during the Meraj.
So, we pray - not due to FEAR, but for LOVE. Love for Allah Ta'alla. If you do something for love, will it ever be a chore for you?
Does it make any sense to you?
This is just one illustration to show how love of Allah alters the way we think. And the way we approach our responsibilities. This is the basics of what we call Sufi'ism (whereas this is just Islam, nothing else)
(I have to go now, so I won't be posting anymore today.)**
[/quote]
You pray because you FEAR that if you don't pray your duas will be not answered. That is what you said in the first segment of your post.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
Are you familiar with these:
Bayazid Tayfur al-Bistami
Ibn Arabi
Junaid
Mansur al-Hallaj
Abu Yazid
So naqshbandi and sufis different thing or same?
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]