The situation is not very different in Pakistan. Regardless of whatever the laws state; the youth, especially boys are submitting to porn.
I do not consider the following in anyway a solution but what can be done to curb such influences? Where are the grass roots of the problem? And how can those be addressed?
*The situation is not very different in Pakistan. Regardless of whatever the laws state; the youth, especially boys are submitting to porn.
I do not consider the following in anyway a solution but what can be done to curb such influences? Where are the grass roots of the problem? And how can those be addressed?*
Implement Shariah, duh! :) When there is no source, the demand dies.
Afghanistan and some areas of Pakistan have 0 or .05 Aids percentage. India is second to Africa. This comes from the new HIV/AIDS epidemic chart.
If you want Pakistan to be the 3rd, please go ahead.
the basic training/grooming starts right from the house...its the responsibility of
the parents to educate their children about whats right and whats not..
i don't think if the society gives a damn to what our youth does..all they care about is making money.
***I dunno where I'm going. I dunno what for. But I'm making progress.
thats how it has always been and thats how it will always be....in other words its the theory of "YING YANG"..we can't eradicate all the bad in the societies which is
impossible..
ps. what i said is true for all the societies ofcourse in my opinion
***I dunno where I'm going. I dunno what for. But I'm making progress.
Yasmeen,
The trump card answer, Shariah, is easier to give than actually implements. Not to mention that laws don't make people moral.
I have met quiet a few students from Saudi Arabia that prides in Shariah Laws, their morals values are a shame to even discuss. Iran, another claimer of the Islamic State has serious prostitution problems. Both these countries have strict laws against such practices, very similar to those in Pakistan. Though the problem still persists.
Last time Zia in his zeal of publicity stunt clamped down on such cinemas & brothels. It seriously back fired with cinemas going underground & more towards home video ... and the brothels being shut down in their areas, sprung out in more respectable areas of the big cities before clean from such immoral businesses.
In my opinion, morals & values are ingrained at family level and through spiritual education, not by opression of more strict laws.
and ahmedjee…now u are gonna tell me u have never watched porn?
I agree with Ahmadjee.
People think that just because the Sharia is holy that it automatically works.
There is a debate in political science which will never end - does the system or the people make society work right?
Either way you approach the situation, a system wont work unless if the right people are behind it, and the wrong system wont work if the right people are behind it.
If Islamic Law is implemented in Pakistan, do you honestly think everyone is going to become a good person? No, of course not. The problems will continue, and the laws will be abused. Take a look at the Hudood Ordinance. If the Pak govt can't execute THAT correctly, do you really expect them to execute anything else correctly? And if citizens take advantage of this law for evil, dont you think the same citizens will take advantage of other laws as well for evil?
Also , remember the Sharia was compiled a long time ago. Forensics is a new invention that is not in the Sharia. And the same folks who shout about implementing Sharia, dont want to implement forensics because it isn't written in the Sharia. They want to follow the Sharia to the T w/o any changes, since it'll give them more opportunity to do evil in society.
The way to fix this is to educate the people. Literacy seems to go hand in hand with prohibiting evil in society.
Also, families need to realize that the prohibitions they place on their daughter ought to be equal to ones placed on a son. Boys are allowed to roam the streets at nights (more source of evil), hang with who they want, are not reprimanded for fooling around sexually, while girls aren't even allowed to go past their high school education before being packed up and sent to a susral. Nope, this doesn't work.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Yasmeen,
The trump card answer, Shariah, is easier to give than actually implements. Not to mention that laws don't make people moral.
I have met quiet a few students from Saudi Arabia that prides in Shariah Laws, their morals values are a shame to even discuss. Iran, another claimer of the Islamic State has serious prostitution problems. Both these countries have strict laws against such practices, very similar to those in Pakistan. Though the problem still persists.
Last time Zia in his zeal of publicity stunt clamped down on such cinemas & brothels. It seriously back fired with cinemas going underground & more towards home video ... and the brothels being shut down in their areas, sprung out in more respectable areas of the big cities before clean from such immoral businesses.
In my opinion, morals & values are ingrained at family level and through spiritual education, not by opression of more strict laws.**
[/quote]
Harray my BAAP! its Yemeen, tera bhai, not Yasmeen! LOL
In other words, since we can't stop drug abuse, we should allow it right? :)
Be very very careful for what you ask.
Shaloom
[quote]
Originally posted by Yemeen:
**
:) Yeah right.
Mine, yours or Ahmadjee's?
When you think that we've used all our chances
And the chance to make everything right
Keep on making the same old mistakes
Makes untipping the balance so easy
When we're living our lives on the edge
Say a prayer on the book of the dead**
[quote]
Originally posted by Yemeen:
** In other words, since we can't stop drug abuse, we should allow it right? :)
**
[/quote]
Actually I didn't say that.
My point was more stricter/different legislation is not the answer. There is need for moral education at a family level as no political solution will suffice.
well I dont see any harm in most porn as long as it doesnt hurt the people involved and they are of a age to give theyre consent .
we see people killing each other all the time why not see people making love.
and I cant see any way to stop people watching it in this day and age .
if people dont want to watch it they dont have to it should be up to personal choice.
[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
**well I dont see any harm in most porn as long as it doesnt hurt the people involved and they are of a age to give theyre consent .
we see people killing each other all the time why not see people making love.
and I cant see any way to stop people watching it in this day and age .
if people dont want to watch it they dont have to it should be up to personal choice.**
[/quote]
I absolutely agree with Jonny mann...
[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
*we see people killing each other all the time why not see people making love.
*
[/quote]
u don't have to justify the doing of one bad thing for doing another.
both of them are immoral and should be discouraged.
***I dunno where I'm going. I dunno what for. But I'm making progress.
if I were to take part in a porn film that would be my choice and I wouldent be doing anything that was harming other people .
and Ive seen all kinds of main stream porn and I dont think it has had a bad effect on my character.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**
I do not consider the following in anyway a solution but what can be done to curb such influences? Where are the grass roots of the problem? And how can those be addressed?
[/quote]
**
[/QUOTE]
***I dunno where I'm going. I dunno what for. But I'm making progress.
You mention claimer of Islamic state. None of these areas are Islamic. Saudi for example implements only the Islamic punishment system then has an American economic, judicial, penal etc system.
There is no shariah implemented today. Neither Zia nor Afganistan implemented Islam.
A society emanates from the system. Society effects the way people act. If the society is Islamic then the people will be Islamic.
Nowadays in pakistan since globalisation the effect of western society can be seen amongst the people eg pre marital relations etc.
There is a process called ijtihad which is deriving a hukm from the evidences eg a car is halal as the prophet used transport.
Islam is not fawed and allah says Islam is for all times which it is. I recently found an article on the Islamic verdict on cloning for example.
Pakistani government say they look to build a secular state so do you really expect correct implementation.
The only way to educate people is to have a society based around Islam. The west have their ideas all round our countries eg porn movies in pakistan on cable systems. Globalisation pushing their culture onto the Muslims.
The west's biggest threat is islam which ruled for 1400 years and they will try to get rid of islam from the people by pushing their capitalist ideology onto the people.
Pornography has a detrimental effect so to say it doesn't effect society wrong. In can effect marriages, cause crime for example eg the view of women as being objects simply for sex which can encourage other pursuits like prostitution for example.
Society decides on morals and we live in an immoralistic society. We live in a society based around sex eg if i wanted to sell something all i would need to do is stick a big breasted woman to front it. Sex is a cornerstone of this society and it is becoming more frequent in places like India and Pakistan due to globalisation.
If the society is not corrupt then the people will not be corrupt. Shariah is the answer as it is Allah's deen and implements a society which is moral and carries values very different from the present corrupt societies we are in.
I think that you have a cheek to call my society corrupt .
when the prophet mohammed a adult man of about 50 was having sex with aisha a child of 9 .
and started having sexual feelings for her from the age of 6 .
aisha was not 9 when he married her, jhonny, she was past puberty - there was no such thing as "teen age" lifestyle at that time, and if you read your history correctly you will see that the concept of "teen age life" didn't appear until the late 1900's in america.
it was like childhood ----> adulthood.
The minute a girl got her period, she was deemed worthy to marry. So Aisha was not a child when she married the prophet.
And the fact that the prophet first married khadija (20 yrs older than him) and then Aishaa, after Khadija's death), (he was , you're right, much older than her)...
that serves to show that age doesnt matter. Aishaa may have been young, but she was a very smart woman. She was mature for her age, and that's why the marriage with the Rasul worked, despite age difference.
I know some people, being born with typical nonIslamic values, will find it disgusting, but when you really look at it biologically and psychologically, it makes more sense.
Sheikh: You say, essentially, the system makes the person good. If we implemented and Islamic system, then we would have muslims.
Its actually the other way around
good people -----> then establishment of good system.
Why?
If you put up shariah in say Pakistan, the people will a. not want it, because they know that it'll be abused like all other gov systems that Pakistan has tried. b. They're not psychologically ready to accept it, since they hold on to nonIslamic values over Islamic values. Well most people.
Historically, the Prophet had to mold the people into accepting Islam, before he started up the Islamic form of govt. His followers had to be true muslims in order to accept sharia. Likewise, you see that, while the Prophet was converting and doing his sermons AND reorganizing society SLOWLY into one with Islamic values, the punishments imposed for crimes were light, and then when society was able to accept sharia law, the punishments were changed to more strict ones.
Likewise, the Quran was not revealed at once -- it was revealed in steps, and the first step was to establish the oneness of God and the authority of God. Then came the purging of the bad values and acts in society. Then came the final law system - the sharia. Notice God didn't throw the sharia on the people while they were still in the age of jahaaliat.
You might say, people are already muslims in Pakistan. Yes, by name. I dont think they're true muslims though. I dont think anyone is anymore.
I hope that explains things more clearly to those who think sharia will solve everything if implemented.
THE ISLAMIC EVIDENCE OF 'AISHAH'S AGE
Due to the apparent ignorance of many Muslims, possibly due to reading "modernist" apologetic literature like that mentioned above, a look at what the authentic sources of Islam say about the age at which 'Aishah married the Prophet is in order. This way, before we move on to an analysis of the facts, we will first establish what the authentic Islamic facts are. At this point, it should be mentioned that it is absolutely pointless from an Islamic standpoint to say that the age of 'Aishah is "not found in the Qur'an", since the textual sources of Islam are made up of BOTH the Qur'an and the Sunnah - and the Qur'an tells us that. For those wanting (or needing) to learn more about the status of the Sunnah in Islam, please read An Introduction to the Sunnah and/or The Sunnah and Its Position in Islamic Law. Now in regards to what the authentic Islamic sources actually say, it may come as a disappointment to some "modern" and "cultured" Muslims that there are four ahadith in Saheeh al-Bukhari and three ahadith in Saheeh Muslim which clearly state that 'Aishah was "nine years old" at the time that her marriage was consummated with the Prophet . These ahadith, with only slight variation, read as follows:
'Aishah, may God be pleased with her, narrated that the Prophet was betrothed (zawaj) to her when she was six years old and he consummated (nikah) his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years. (Saheeh al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)
Of the four ahadith in Saheeh al-Bukhari, two were narrated from 'Aishah (7:64 and 7:65), one from Abu Hishaam (5:236) and one via 'Ursa (7:88). All three of the ahadith in Saheeh Muslim have 'Aishah as a narrator. Additionally, all of the ahadith in both books agree that the marriage betrothal contract took place when 'Aishah was "six years old", but was not consummated until she was "nine years old". Additionally, a hadeeth with basically the same text (matn) is reported in Sunan Abu Dawood. Needless to say, this evidence is—Islamically speaking—overwhelmingly strong and Muslims who deny it do so only by sacrificing their intellectual honesty, pure faith or both.
This evidence having been established, there doesn't seem much room for debate about 'Aishah's age amongst believing Muslims. Until someone proves that in the Arabic language "nine years old" means something other than "nine years old", then we should all be firm in our belief that she was "nine years old" (as if there's a reason or need to believe otherwise!?!).
:0)yep
Like pyariCgudia said childhood came about in the 1900s.
It is a social construction and before the industrial revolution there was no such concept of childhood.
Aisha was not the nine year old girl that you see now. Currently children are brought up as innocent and naive but in history children have just been young adults.
Besides aisha who spoke about wanting to get married to the prophet and was in no way forcedand fully agreed to marriage. Once she got a period she was eligible to get married.
No nine year old would have been able to speak the way she did nowadays.
Neither would you see a seven year old child tell his father who is not Muslim that he was becoming Muslim and say it with so much confidence.
In the current society a seven year old would be treated as a child and be playing action man or barbie. Childhood was not like that.
PyariCgudia the points you make about shariah are good.
I feel the people in Pakistan do want Islam and the people thought the formation of Pakistan would bring them Islam but unfortunately it didn't.
Since then they have become westernised but the Islamic sentiment is always there. eg if a man was to insult the rasul the most jahil Muslim would get angry. Most pakistanis hold islamic sentiment. I don't think any pakistani would turn down Islam if someone was to implement it.
For your second point you are absolutely right. The prophet did mold the people into accepting Islam and those that helped him into socialising the people had to be Islamic and the tribes that helped with the coup had to become Muslim.
Definitely the people need to be molded to accept Islam.
It is not vital however for everyone to be Islamic as the prophet in ten years managed to bring only 130 people to Islam.
Just an indication of the effect of an Islamic society. On establishment of the Islamic state 20 million became Muslim in the next ten years as they saw the beauty of Islam and the society was islamic.
Just like Muslims become westernised in this society in the same way people can be molded into Islam through society.
The figures show how an Islamic society can effect people. If shariah were to be implemented then i believe the Muslims would accept it and with it's implementation the Muslims will improve.
We even have a benefit in that the whole Quran has already been revealed and there is no need for gradual implementation but everything has been done for us.