...Studying Bible...

[homer_j_simpson]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@Shikra

I am taking an English literature classes called Bible as literature. In that class, we won’t be just reciting it but instead, we’ll be reading a few chapters here and there and discussing it and maybe write papers on stories. Unfortunately, they don’t offer Quran classes or I would’ve loved to take it.

So, my question is: Is there anything wrong in taking this class? I don’t think we are told not to study other religious books? Afterall, we believe in that book too. And it will be the old testament (original Bible) that we’ll read, not the modern versions. Ofcourse I won’t be reading it as I read Quran thinking I follow this book, but still. I would’ve asked the Imam but I couldn’t see him yesterday. References would be appreciated.

I suggest go for it buddy…I have skimmed through Old testament and yes there are similarities between old testament and quran…btw its just a class dude allah is not gonna punish us for reading about bible… . Islam encourages education

[suroor_ca02]

Re: ...Studying Bible...

hey minh.. just out of curiosity ( n just for the sake of knowledge) are christian women allowed to marry a person from another faith? like in islam muslim women cannot marry a man of another faith. how does it work in christianity?
(it is really a question out of curiosity and i dont mean to offend u at all.)

shikra: there is nothing wrong with learning about other religions. i took a course on world religions in second year of uni, it was the most interesting course i ever took! we even had an assignment to go into the religious institute of our choice and write about what we see n then do research about them. go for it!

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@lostsoul

Quite retarded statement…in my view.

people should read whatever they can with an open mind.

If u advise ppl to to close their minds before reading or listening anything, how can non-muslims ever convert to islam?

your logic hurts your cause, if u do the a bit of moral equivalence

**

You dont know my case, perhaps it hurts yours, I really dont know?

I am not trying to snatch the uninformed from the craddle or pull the wool over their eyes. I would like intelligent, mature and fully grown reasonable people weighing the options and in full knowledge before changing their mind on religious issues. I dont have a problem with people staying with their religious beliefs, if they dont see a good reason for changing.

regards,

bob.

bob

[Shikra]

Re: ...Studying Bible...

Once again, thanks for the encouragement. Guys, please don't turn this thread into a battle ground. Stay calm.

Suroor I know there is nothing wrong in learning about other religions, but I guess it's different to just learn general information about other religions than to actually pick one and read the holy book of that religion. Or maybe it's the same, I don't know.

So I guess the moral of the thread is that we can argue it both ways. But in the end, it comes down to a person's own opinion whether he chooses to look at the hadeeth in reply #5 or chooses to look at how Islam encourages you to get education, even if you have to go to China for that.

Homer You are right. Allah won't punish me for that but that wasn't the question. Allah knows what my intentions are and after all, the Quran, the Bible, the Torah, other books, prophets, messengers, it all comes down to Allah, if you think about it. :)

[minah_pa]

Re: ...Studying Bible...

suroor - no problem. No offense taken at all. Back when my father married my mother (Catholic and Episcopalian) both were ex-communicated (cut off) from their respective churches for marrying outside the faith, largely because neither promised to raise their kids either Catholic or Episcopalian. Now the Catholic Church is more lenient. It discourages interfaith marriages (May 14, 2004 in a statement read by Cardinal Stephen Fumio Hamao), but does not forbid them.

[QUOTE]
The document actively discourages marriages between Catholics and Muslims as such marriages require canonical dispensation from the Church and counselling by Catholic associations.

Moreover, "if the marriage is registered with a consulate of the Islamic country of origin, the Catholic party must beware of reciting or signing documents containing the shahada (profession of the Muslim faith)."
[/QUOTE]
My husband and I met the priest and had the pre-marriage counseling, basically they go make sure both parties understand the requirments of marriage and are ready for it. There is some probing as to whether one might convert, but that is dropped. Canonical dispensation is a fancy name for an ok.

Catholics believe that the way to heaven is through Christ, but also believe the life of a good man can allow him to go to heaven. So, it is not the religion that really matters (it helps) but the type of character the person of another faith has.

Shikra - can we politely agree that the China that exists now is not the same China that existed in the times of the Prophet and leave it at that?

[lostsoul]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@bob_chasm

**

I am not trying to snatch the uninformed from the craddle or pull the wool over their eyes. I would like intelligent, mature and fully grown reasonable people weighing the options and in full knowledge before changing their mind on religious issues. I dont have a problem with people staying with their religious beliefs, if they dont see a good reason for changing.

Nor do I have a problem with ppl staying with their religion…But u said
**
one needs to become secure in their faith before reading the books of another faith.
**

Why is it necessary for u that a person first read his parents or his inherited religion, before stuydying others? As a person born into a muslim or christian or atheist family, no one is bound to have any special contract with his/her parent’s
religion, in my view

[suroor_ca02]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@minah_pa

suroor - no problem. No offense taken at all. Back when my father married my mother (Catholic and Episcopalian) both were ex-communicated (cut off) from their respective churches for marrying outside the faith, largely because neither promised to raise their kids either Catholic or Episcopalian. Now the Catholic Church is more lenient. It discourages interfaith marriages (May 14, 2004 in a statement read by Cardinal Stephen Fumio Hamao), but does not forbid them.

My husband and I met the priest and had the pre-marriage counseling, basically they go make sure both parties understand the requirments of marriage and are ready for it. There is some probing as to whether one might convert, but that is dropped. Canonical dispensation is a fancy name for an ok.

Catholics believe that the way to heaven is through Christ, but also believe the life of a good man can allow him to go to heaven. So, it is not the religion that really matters (it helps) but the type of character the person of another faith has.

Shikra - can we politely agree that the China that exists now is not the same China that existed in the times of the Prophet and leave it at that?

interesting.. thanks minah.

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@lostsoul

Nor do I have a problem with ppl staying with their religion…But u said
**
one needs to become secure in their faith before reading the books of another faith.
**

Why is it necessary for u that a person first read his parents or his inherited religion, before stuydying others? As a person born into a muslim or christian or atheist family, no one is bound to have any special contract with his/her parent’s
religion, in my view

**

To preserve diversity in human cultures and religious traditions. As I tell my son, if we dont preserve our cultural and religious traditions, who will? I dont expect European Christians to come learn my language and practice my religious traditions.

If you feel you dont have a contract with your parent’s religious and cultural tradition, then you should ask yourself why? Afterall, if all religious traditions are equal, then your parent’s tradition is equal to all others and you should be most familiar with it, if you were brought up by them.

regards,

bob

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@minah_pa

You argued for caution, that is what I said. I never said a poster “has suggested that the bible should not be studied according to Islam”. Yes, that was you I was refering to when I said arguing for caution. The Bible won’t bite you and it certainly won’t make someone who is as faithful as Shikra convert or anyone who is content with their belief.

**

If you had read my full post you would have seen that, personally, I am in favor of reading the Bible. I stated I have studied the bible for four years and came away with a stronger belief in the prophethood of the Prophet p.

regards,

bob

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@suroor_ca02

hey minh.. just out of curiosity ( n just for the sake of knowledge) are christian women allowed to marry a person from another faith? like in islam muslim women cannot marry a man of another faith. how does it work in christianity?
(it is really a question out of curiosity and i dont mean to offend u at all.)

shikra: there is nothing wrong with learning about other religions. i took a course on world religions in second year of uni, it was the most interesting course i ever took! we even had an assignment to go into the religious institute of our choice and write about what we see n then do research about them. go for it!

suroor,

Just wanted to point out that while the catholic church has recently allowed interfaith marriages, protestant churches usally dont allow interfaith marriages.

[PrinceMS]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@minah_pa

EDIT : PrinceMS - there was no reason to say things like that, it just makes you look like a lesser person when I know from some of your posts you make some valid points. Slamming others religions and the people who practice them is a sign of an person insecure in their own, since by slamming you are not practicing what your own religion teaches.

I didn’t intend to diss any religion / culture. I was just trying to say that when a lesbian christian teacher (oxymoron right here) (who doesn’t agree with bible but teaches us a FAKE story about bible) tries to show how our society is messed up because everyfin is oriented with male/female xual organs … its kinda hard not to use Stupid for her
The story is fake, because she told us, and On the novel it says so. It was v.powerful novel (v.v.graphic with female xual images and only thing it had common with Bible was that it was in Biblical times and some names mentioned in Bible are used in the novel).
she said we live in a Men controlling / oriented society. We should go back to the age when Women were thought to God because of their reporduction abilties (creating new life = goddess).
Wait, it gets better - The male dominance started when society decided to make a FARM! (forgot the age name, but farmers came into existance. build homes, grow corps and feed family). WTF does she wants, go back to cave age?
I can go for hours - and this is me NOT paying attention hehehe.

Really do appreciate the word of confidence. I guess I should be more careful with words. But I hope you understand what the fustration is about

[IBN_KHATTAB]

Re: ...Studying Bible...

in my opinion,
if u have fully read and understood quran then only go for it,
coz u will be asked for quran on the judgement day not the other books as we r from among the ummah of pbuh.!!
so 1st read and understand quran fully and then practis eit, and then for knowledge u can read many other books.

[minah_pa]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@bob_chasm

Just wanted to point out that while the catholic church has recently allowed interfaith marriages, protestant churches usally dont allow interfaith marriages.

Suroor,

Sorry, like bob pointed out, I only answered from a Catholic point of view. There are a lot of different sects of christian churches with a lot of different views.

Bob,

I think (ok, not think, I know I did) I overreacted to something you wrote and there was no reason for it. I was a misunderstanding and totally my fault for attacking you. I’m not going to offer excuses just that I’m sorry. Hopefully no hard feelings.

[lostsoul]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@bob_chasm

**

To preserve diversity in human cultures and religious traditions. As I tell my son, if we dont preserve our cultural and religious traditions, who will? I dont expect European Christians to come learn my language and practice my religious traditions.

If you feel you dont have a contract with your parent’s religious and cultural tradition, then you should ask yourself why? Afterall, if all religious traditions are equal, then your parent’s tradition is equal to all others and you should be most familiar with it, if you were brought up by them.

regards,

bob

I guess u have a new concept of diversity, and its acceptance.

Diversity, IMHO, is not about preserving our culture at all cost (like brainwashing my child to take my religion from a tender age). Diversity is about accepting the best values and ideas from around you, no matter which culture they come from. It is about a belief that, u and ur culture is not the best for al time and in all environments.

Again, I am not saying that my parents culture and their religion is not bad, or should be assumed bad, if not proven otherwise. All I am saying is that, I have no obligation to take my parents religion. And no one else has. If my native language, Urdu (which I think is the a beautiful laguage of love and diversity), has no cultural and economomical forces to ensure its survival, then I guess, it will die out. I will be sad. But my child does not have any obligation to share that burden and eventual grief with me.

If you feel you dont have a contract with your parent’s religious and cultural tradition, then you should ask yourself why? Afterall, if all religious traditions are equal, then your parent’s tradition is equal to all others and you should be most familiar with it, if you were brought up by them

Not all religious traditions r equal. Some r worst, and should be abandoned.

Also, there is BIG difference b.w cultural tradition and parents religion. You can;t help get the same culture as ur parents. But religion is different issue.

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@minah_pa

Suroor,

Sorry, like bob pointed out, I only answered from a Catholic point of view. There are a lot of different sects of christian churches with a lot of different views.

Bob,

I think (ok, not think, I know I did) I overreacted to something you wrote and there was no reason for it. I was a misunderstanding and totally my fault for attacking you. I’m not going to offer excuses just that I’m sorry. Hopefully no hard feelings.

**

No hard feelings. Peace to you.

Coming back to the topic, have you read the bible?

regards,

bob

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@lostsoul

I guess u have a new concept of diversity, and its acceptance ..

I think you need to come out of conflict mode, so people can talk to you. First you called me retarded, now you are suggesting I have a strange idea of diversity. Dont you know how to be polite and civil or are you always this smug and confrontational?

[lostsoul]

Re: ...Studying Bible...

^^ nice comeback :)

I called ur statement 'retarded' not u. And calling ur idea of diversity strange is not impolite.

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

@lostsoul

^^ nice comeback

I called ur statement ‘retarded’ not u. And calling ur idea of diversity strange is not impolite.

**

didnt know statements could be retarded. Are TVs, cars and other non human entities in your world retarded too?

[lostsoul]

Re: ...Studying Bible...

^^ yah, poor choice of words. English is my 2nd lang.

Now, can we get back to the topic? Or just close this thread?

[bob_chasm]

Re: …Studying Bible…

As far as diversity is concerned, your post argues for assimilation (a melting pot) where you can take from different lesser cultures to produce a new and better culture. That is the antithesis of diversity!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/meltingpot/meltingpot.htm

In fact, the very concept of assimilation is being called into question as never before. Some sociologists argue that the melting pot often means little more than “Anglo conformity” and that assimilation is not always a positive experience – for either society or the immigrants themselves. And with today’s emphasis on diversity and ethnicity, it has become easier than ever for immigrants to avoid the melting pot entirely.