She married him after he returned despite his injuries b/c she was already in love with him. I'm pretty sure it wasn't an arranged engagement. They most likely dated for months (if not years) before getting engaged...and then he left for Vietnam. That emotional attachment/commitment was already there. Its a very different situation compared to an arranged marriage where the 2 people don't have time/energy/emotions invested in the relationship (actually, there is no relationship when things like debt are being discussed in the beginning).
Thats the point. She loved and got engaged to a healthy and handsome man. But she still married him when he became half the man. For her his debt would have been the last thing to come in mind. If there is no love then whats the point in getting married.
That goes for marriages happening with mutual consent and choice. I thought we were talking about 'love marriages'.
Regarding arranged marriages, usually the student loan is paid by the spouse's father if you are talking about our desi arranged marriage culture.
Umm....what you wrote previously doesn't make any sense based on this but yea sure....whatever you say.
LOL........so "real marriage" happens only once in lifetime huh? So people who get divorced and remarry.....which marriage is the fake one...1st or 2nd?
Well i have never known anyone who married twice in their life, Except my gora friend's parents. For me according to our culture once you get married , you get married for next 7 lives.
I dont know the cases about multiple marriages, my thinking is your first marrige is the real marriage, rest are just compromises. But then again, i could be wrong. Like i said i have never seen cases of second or third marriage in my personal circle so i will take your word for it.
PS. Oh wait, one of my best buddies got divorced 2 years ago, i think he is getting married again.
I would be ok with that kind of debt. Think about home mortgages, depending on where you live mortgages can be on average about 300K. For an average size home.
Except now you're in the hole for half a million dollars. It is definitely not just a given, and as has been mentioned, if the debt is substantial it should be disclosed. I certainly wouldn't blame someone if they had misgivings about marrying someone with a lot of debt.
That education in the US is so expensive is no excuse. We all blame people when they major in subjects that have no job prospects, so why should medical students be exempt? I never had any special passion for medicine, but I considered it. However, given the amount of work required, and the loans that one has to take on, I decided it wasn't worth it.
I have zero student loans, but my husband had $$$. Some was before marriage, and then student loans after marriage. Hubby and I..well TBH, I put my foot down on purchasing the luxuries of life etc until the loans were paid off. It killed me that he had these loans, and we paid them off in record time, AH. That meant both he and I drove older, paid up vehicle(s), used zero cc, forgo many things. I truly considered his debt as my debt. I felt I could not function until this debt that was hanging over our heads was not paid up. His siblings still have debt over $70- $100 K each, AH, we do not.
A young Desi girl from our community recently separated from her husband due to his being in over $100,000 in debt. She was made aware of this debt right after her walima. Her inlaws pulled out the Quran, and pointed to some ayat, telling her that what was her husbands debt was now hers too, that she should start working ASAP to help her new husband. Instead she left him.
A close friend of mine is a med DR here in the US. He also married a Dr who at the time had just completed med school. He ended up paying for all her other fees, medical school related residency bills etc, as her father told him that since he was now married, it was his duty to do foot the bills of his wife. my friends wife has 3 other sisters who all married fresh out of med school,a nd in each instance the new groom was told to foot his new wifes' medical school etc expenses
I'm tempted to say that this is an "it depends" scenario.
For some people, student loans are a necessity - in order for them to get better job prospects and/or follow a professional passion - they need to take out loans to pay for their education and qualifacation courses. The loan is an investment in their future earnings.
But if someone took out thousands of dollars of student loans to pay for a degree they had no intention of using (or their partner didn't intend for them to use) - then taking on your partner's debt isn't palatable. I think education is an investment - but it also depends for what it is to be used. Would I pay for my partner to pursue an executive MBA or to earn a medical degree that costs upwards of $200K, when he doesn't actually use that degree to further his career - probably not.
Enlightenment through education is commendable - but it must also be practical since there are real world costs associated with that education.
But hey, what do I know....
Except hold on, I have a real life example. Guy marries girl. Girl is a very smart flake who spends her life trying to keep up with the Jones.
Mrs. Jones decides to do her BSc. Girl decides she wants to one-up Mrs. Jones and starts nagging her husband to let her go to Dentistry school, which would have cost them $70K, fifteen years ago.
Hubby says - why do you want to become a dentist?
Wifey says - Because I want to out-do Mrs. Jones.
Hubby says - Will you work as a dentist?
Wifey says- Work, why would I work - that's what you're here for.
Hubby says, heck no! I am not paying for you to put your degree on the wall - we can't afford a degree for the sake of your vanity.
So, the point being paying for your partners student loans/debt depends on each situation.
I get the whole my debt is your debt....but personally I would never expect my husband to pay off my educational loans. Throwing a $100k plus loan on someone is no small issue and it is perfectly understandable to reject a rishta based on this alone. I wouldn't have taken out the loans in the first place if I wasn't sure I could pay them back. I'd disclose my debt and also state that I plan to work and use most (if not all) of my salary on paying off my debt until I'm debt free. If he or his family has issues with that.... We both move on.
The only point in paying so much for an education.....would be to actually use that education...at least that's my opinion.
^ I totally agree! I think expecting your partner to pay for your debt is wrong. But it's also wrong to prevent your partner from being able to pay off their debt - example would be husband asking a wife-doctor to not work because it affects their family life. Or, for a wife to not help with family expenses even though she's earning. I know Islam says a wife's money is her own - but if your husband is paying off his student loans, plus is exclusively responsible for the household expenses - wifey buying herself a Birkin bag would seem self-indulgent when as a couple they are struggling to establish themselves.
I think the financial goals should be mutual and agreed upon at the outset of the relationship, with room for growth and change as the relationship demands.
I get the whole my debt is your debt....but personally I would never expect my husband to pay off my educational loans. Throwing a $100k plus loan on someone is no small issue and it is perfectly understandable to reject a rishta based on this alone. I wouldn't have taken out the loans in the first place if I wasn't sure I could pay them back. I'd disclose my debt and also state that I plan to work and use most (if not all) of my salary on paying off my debt until I'm debt free. If he or his family has issues with that.... We both move on.
The only point in paying so much for an education.....would be to actually use that education...at least that's my opinion.
I agree, except I don't think it's fair for the wife to work solely for paying off her loans. If she's working she should also contribute equally to the household. Chances are, the husband is paying off his loans as well, so it's not fair for him to support the family while the wife focuses exclusively on her loans and her debt.
I agree, except I don't think it's fair for the wife to work solely for paying off her loans. If she's working she should also contribute equally to the household. Chances are, the husband is paying off his loans as well, so it's not fair for him to support the family while the wife focuses exclusively on her loans and her debt.
Yes I agree. In my example I was assuming the husband had no loans.......so while he took care of the household needs I could pay off my loans. Of course if both had loans some other arrangement would be made........but the main goal would definitely be paying off all prior loans ASAP.
say one spouse brings home 50k a year and the other makes 100,000
together that is 150,000
say they have a total of 200,000 in student loans. say they pay around $24,000 in loan payments a year...they still have 126,000 for all other expenses.
and this is a very basic and simplified example. if they have those loans theyre prolly making pretty good money too. theres many ways to look at this scenario and many options.
as usual life1 complicates everything more than necesarry and makes life seem worse than it is.
we really need to stop looking for perfect spouses.
No I wouldn't because I wouldn't expect my spouse to take over my personal debt. I believe in personal responsibility and take care of the consequences of my actions and so should my spouse. If they chose to take a loan out then they should be the one paying the loan, afterall they are the benefactor of the loan (the education and increased salary, etc)
Personally having a loan of 200 K or even 500 or 600 K (in the case of the home) is not a big deal but if the home is in the husband's name and was purchased prior to marriage then if divorce happens, the house will remain to be husband's property and you're the poor schmuck who got stuck with the bill.
I know a girl who received a rishta from this guy but they backed out when she told the guy that she has to work after marriage to pay off her law school debt. They had the audacity to inquire why her dad isn't paying for it even though her dad had paid for her undergrad. The guy actually said to the girl if you're using your salary to pay off your loans, how are we going to afford the other luxuries of life? It's as if the guy was hoping to get a cash cow instead of an educated girl.
Some Pakistani guys are just unbelievable. They don't realize that going to professional schools in North America usually does involve incurring quite a bit of debt. So they want their wife to be a doctor or a lawyer but then expect her to stay home after she is married. How is she supposed to pay off her loans then?!
Like it or not..it is quiet true story. One of my cousin who is also related to law field gota rishta from a guy..who asked her dad to pay off her debt then he'll marry her. And this guy doesn't even have bach. degree..go figure.
I think..we all have educational loans..and are paying it off slowly. I know it is tough life here already. Say if my wife ha 50000 or more debt..then i would insha'allah stand with her to make sure she and I..pay off our loans asap. And come up with strategy to make sure we are debt free. It is not easy to live in North America. If you make goals in life..anything is possible. My khala and khalo had tons of loans..when they got married. They worked for 6 years..to make sure they pay off all of their loans. And mash'Allah..my khala and khalo are living very good life now.
I agree. Marriage should be something that lasts forever and divorce should not be thought of as the easy way out. When you marry you promise to take care of each other in sickness and health, in good times and bad so I see no problem in contributing financially. Of course, all couples will be different but that is what i personally believe. Even an arranged marriage can turn into love afterwards and I would be happy with my parents assisting my spouse with their debt as long as they are respectful to my parents, which they would have to be otherwise i would never have married them. So it works out. this is true love. True Love - YouTube
I had a feeling the girl in your story was not likely to be desi.
Umm....what you wrote previously doesn't make any sense based on this but yea sure....whatever you say.
LOL........so "real marriage" happens only once in lifetime huh? So people who get divorced and remarry.....which marriage is the fake one...1st or 2nd?
I think Kaka was talking about the concept of a soulmate. It could be the one person you feel a connection to and love completely. even if one is in the unfortunate situation of marrying again it is hard to forget that one true love. It is a good aim to aim for a marriage that lasts a lifetime but of course for many valid reasons things might not work out.
come on guys where is the love? Tomorrow anything can happen. We never know how long we have to live. Do you want your spouse to remember you as kanjoos makki choos. I don't think so. Make a legacy. Live on beyond your image of yourself.