and who worked for reversal of such decision? Congress?
I am not familiar with this part history of Sindh, only what little I have read. We did not study much about sindh-British history in school when I was a student. Can U please educate the ignorant ones among us, either here or in a separate thread so we can discuss and learn ? I had a sindhi hindu friend in school who was quite proud of her sindhi roots. But I also know a family whose grand parents migrated from Pak punjab who were bitter (the grand parents) cos they were very rich landed gentry, the younger generation were cool.
I am not familiar with this part history of Sindh, only what little I have read. We did not study much about sindh-British history in school when I was a student. Can U please educate the ignorant ones among us, either here or in a separate thread so we can discuss and learn ?
Ok, I will work on it and will discuss it in a separate thread. :)
Lets assume,none, but it still it doesn't take out the concept of bharatvarsh from the hindu intelligensia which always meant from hindukush to
We should differentiate between Hindu religion/mythology and India as a country. India as we know it now has always been fragmented, two periods that I see most of it united is during Maurya and Gupta empires, and that period is not more than 200 years. And in later history it was moghuls (even they had difficulties in some areas) and later British.
Well Indians can believe what ever they want but India as we know it now has always been fragmented, two periods that I see most of it united is during Maurya and Gupta empires, and that period is not more than 200 years. And in later history it was moghuls (even they had difficulties in some areas) and later British.
Yeah. I agree. But the concept of Bharathvarsh has always existed in the hindu religion from vedic times. I am sure even a hindu with religious knowledge in Afghanistan will be able to understand and describe the concept of Bharathvarsh. From the scriptures: *uttaraṃ yatsamudrasya himādreścaiva dakṣiṇam
* varṣaṃ tadbhārataṃ nāma bhāratī yatra santatiḥ
"The country (varṣam) that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains(himalayas) is called Bhāratam; there dwell the descendants of Bharata."
It is very similar to the concept of the muslim Ummah. Muslims have ummah in their religion and hindus have Bharathvarsh irrespective of whether we were a united political unit or not. If a person believes in ummah, how can he discredit anothers belief in Bharathvarsh ?
I personally believe that people must live in the present work for the betterment of the country they have now instead of being debating the preconceived definitions of nation and community from the hindu/muslim religions
We should differentiate between Hindu religion/mythology and India as a country. India as we know it now has always been fragmented, two periods that I see most of it united is during Maurya and Gupta empires, and that period is not more than 200 years. And in later history it was moghuls (even they had difficulties in some areas) and later British.
Why should you disregard the religion/mythology of one community when the formation of a whole country was based on religion ?
By the same token, how often in history have Sindh, Punjab, Baluchistan etc remained as a united political unit ? Sindh was once part of the Umayyad caliphite and later with the Abbasid Caliphite from the 8th to 13th century.Don't the Arabs have a say here ? Hindus were a minority here even during pre independent days. Baluchistan was never culturally a part of Bharath/India. It is culturally more Iranian. So how did these states end up as a part of Pakistan ? It would have made more sense to become a separate country. I don't think there would be much problem if these muslim majority Sindhi/Baloch areas of British India had pushed for a separate country with the help of regional parties of Sindh/Balochisthan/KP. It is also understandable that Parts of Bengal and Punjab would want to seperate. What I don't understand is how Muslim League which considered itself a mouthpiece of all the muslims of subcontinent assume that muslims of UP and Bihar would want the same. Notice the widespread hindu/muslim riots in these regions where muslim were not a majority. The issue of separate homeland for these people does not arise and the only option left to them was to migrate . From the very beginning, years before independence ,when a national level party like ML got involved migration was a forseen conclusion. It is foolish to assume that migration was something unexpected. What could be avoided was the riots and exchange of populations could have taken place more peacefully. ML certainly did not speak for all the muslims of the subcontinent. They did not have the support of the whole muslim community of British India and their action left a very vulnerable minority in India.
Can someone please explain how separate electorate for hindus and muslims would have worked for the development of those communities especially when nation building was a primary objective ? What are the pros and cons ? I am not criticizing, just trying to understand the logic behind that concept.
Also some of Jinnah's 14 points were
1. All cabinets at central or local level should have at least 1/3 Muslim representation.
2. All legislatures in the country and other elected bodies shall be constituted on the definite principle of adequate and effective
representation of minorities in every province without reducing the majority in any province to a minority or even equality.
3. Any territorial distribution that might at any time be necessary shall not in any way affect the Muslim majority.
4.No cabinet, either central or provincial, should be formed without there being a proportion of at least one-third Muslim ministers.
Don't these points contradict each other ? I mean if some Hindu majority place like Himachal Pradesh with a miniscule muslim population should have atleast 1/3 muslim population, how is it possible without demographic changes? Please explain, maybe I did not understand this properly.
Yeah. I agree. But the concept of Bharathvarsh has always existed in the hindu religion from vedic times. I am sure even a hindu with religious knowledge in Afghanistan will be able to understand and describe the concept of Bharathvarsh. From the scriptures: *uttaraṃ yatsamudrasya himādreścaiva dakṣiṇam
* varṣaṃ tadbhārataṃ nāma bhāratī yatra santatiḥ
"The country (varṣam) that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains(himalayas) is called Bhāratam; there dwell the descendants of Bharata."
It is very similar to the concept of the muslim Ummah. Muslims have ummah in their religion and hindus have Bharathvarsh irrespective of whether we were a united political unit or not. If a person believes in ummah, how can he discredit anothers belief in Bharathvarsh ?
I personally believe that people must live in the present work for the betterment of the country they have now instead of in being debating the preconceived definitions of nation and community from the hindu/muslim religions
I know that it's a concept like ummah, because otherwise history does not back this up. It's similar to say that all Muslim people are one people, and so on for the other religions although history does not back this up. There was no India as such, people belonged to different independent fiefdoms and practiced Hinduism and later Buddhism in some parts.
Why should you disregard the religion/mythology of one community when the formation of a whole country was based on religion ?
By the same token, how often in history have Sindh, Punjab, Baluchistan etc remained as a united political unit ? Sindh was once part of the Umayyad caliphite and later with the Abbasid Caliphite from the 8th to 13th century.Don't the Arabs have a say here ? Hindus were a minority here even during pre independent days. Baluchistan was never culturally a part of Bharath/India. It is culturally more Iranian. So how did these states end up as a part of Pakistan ? It would have made more sense to become a separate country. I don't think there would be much problem if these muslim majority Sindhi/Baloch areas of British India had pushed for a separate country with the help of regional parties of Sindh/Balochisthan/KP. It is also understandable that Parts of Bengal and Punjab would want to seperate. What I don't understand is how Muslim League which considered itself a mouthpiece of all the muslims of subcontinent assume that muslims of UP and Bihar would want the same. Notice the widespread hindu/muslim riots in these regions where muslim were not a majority. The issue of separate homeland for these people does not arise and the only option left to them was to migrate . From the very beginning, years before independence ,when a national level party like ML got involved migration was a forseen conclusion. It is foolish to assume that migration was something unexpected. What could be avoided was the riots and exchange of populations could have taken place more peacefully. ML certainly did not speak for all the muslims of the subcontinent. They did not have the support of the whole muslim community of British India and their action left a very vulnerable minority in India.
Most of Pakistan has remained part of same civilizations far more and longer than "India". I have never claimed that sindh or balochistan have always been part of the governments ruling the rest of the country, there has never been a true India. You can even see the maps of Vedic India as per Wikipedia it includes northern India, northern pakistan and Afghanistan. And then again in that area there were different governments which were always at odds with each other.
Most of Pakistan has remained part of same civilizations far more and longer than "India". I have never claimed that sindh or balochistan have always been part of the governments ruling the rest of the country, there has never been a true India. You can even see the maps of Vedic India as per Wikipedia it includes northern India, northern pakistan and Afghanistan. And then again in that area there were different governments which were always at odds with each other.
lol i don't agree with this longer then india part. most of the traditions and culture from vedic period are not being followed in pakistan/afghanistan
infact vedic language sanskrit is much more common with south indians then any other region in the world,sanskrit accent comes natural for a south indian guy.
Muslim League had to face similar problems as were faced by PTI. No lift from majority. Then it changed its stance and won some seats by appointing feudals. Thats the reason, I don’t like Muslim league, because it gave us these feudal representatives, who have never been serious with country. Their forefathers got title of Sirs due to fulfillment of their Masters wishes (mostly against the people of land) and now they are part of our system
lol i don't agree with this longer then india part. most of the traditions and culture from vedic period are not being followed in pakistan/afghanistan
infact vedic language sanskrit is much more common with south indians then any other region in the world,sanskrit accent comes natural for a south indian guy.
As a matter of fact, pure Sindhi got many Sanskrit words. i remember reading 'wayo mandal' instead of Mahol of atmosphere. Even the names of occean I studied in my geography class were sanskrit and not Persianised :)
As a matter of fact, pure Sindhi got many Sanskrit words. i remember reading 'wayo mandal' instead of Mahol of atmosphere. Even the names of occean I studied in my geography class were sanskrit and not Persianised :)
good to know
their might be some persian/arabian/afghan blood in northen india(Pakistan included) but still culturally we are closer to each other then to a say persian/arab
even if only we have been united just for 2 times in last 3000 years according to ali syed,best example is the above sanskrit words
lol and trust me sanskrit Accent comes naturally to many south indian pandits(doesn't mean brahmins here) especially those long words,how those are meant to be spell
lol i don't agree with this longer then india part. most of the traditions and culture from vedic period are not being followed in pakistan/afghanistan
infact vedic language sanskrit is much more common with south indians then any other region in the world,sanskrit accent comes natural for a south indian guy.
Thats history, sadly...all the wars of mahabharata were fought in northern India.
Thats history, sadly...all the wars of mahabharata were fought in northern India.
kauravas and pandavas had support from all over the india in the battle...
my state andhra is mentioned in mahabharata as andhra tribe supporting kauravas in the battle...........
we have something like jyotrilingas/shakthi peetas which are mentioned in many puranas
this temples are located through out sub continent .......
same is case in south indian writings 108 divya desams for vishnu this temples goes upto nepal......
also by same logic in ramayan rama builds bridge at the end near rameshwaram to reach lanka not gujarat or sindh
League was brainchild of AMU, most of the supporter were rich hindustani muslims, Punjabees and Sindhis, didn’t support league till 1937, apart from that KP was never in control of Legue, League’s bastion was Bengal, Bengalis were first people who stood by league, first to die in direct action day of august 46, also first to leave the federation of Pakistan:)
Jinnah always used Pakistan as bargaining tool for muslim rights, rights that he envisaged, but when finally pakistan came into existence, Jinnah went to Karachi leaving many Hindustani muslims disillusioned and subjected to migration into unknown territory, many of them housed themselves temporarily in the house of local congressi muslims leader and returned back to their houses once situation became normal.
Of course, Bigger, like mulim majority areas were upto Jullundhar, but sparsely populated sikhs joined india hence amritsar and in that guise many strategically important areas fell with in Indian territory:)
Like Israel or Japan:)
Imposition is not the right way, In India, Hindi is not national language but official languages, it is upto state government if they feel fit to teach it, which mostly do:)
partion of bengal was done by Lord Curzon in 1905, there were many movement against them, Young bengal movement of Drojiyo was most famous, “Amaar Shonar Bangla” became revolutionary cry then, which is now bangladesh nation anthem, finally the partition of bengal was cancelled, finally Bengals were merged together and all this happened before Mahatma came into political scene of India:)
