Status of Women in Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

" The notion that ONE Creator without form gave rise to hundred of idols is down right folly that only the inhumane hindus are capable of creating and worshipping "

As much as Prophet muhammed being a messenger and Allah being a god that is down right folly only the inhumane muslims are capable of creating and worshipping

Sorry Rani...Not everyone can be as nice as you! also, some people here don't understand your respectful language!

[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited August 10, 2001).]

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Rani:
** The notion that ONE Creator without form gave rise to hundred of idols is down right folly that only the inhumane hindus are capable of creating and worshipping **

Rani: Why do u care in what form Hindus worship God.

Ibrahim says; why do you care why I care ? so, THINK before you ask silly questions like this. Anyway since you lack the senses to understand why. It is because God had so enjoined that man who have been given knowledge MUST guide man/woman who lack it…so it is by caring and sharing we are to grow not by allowing every tom dick and harry to do what they like without proclaiming the TRUTH….got it?

Rani : .how is your form of worship is superior than the others.

Ibrahim says; It is the ONLY established form that had been enjoined by God, hence there is no superior or inferior but only right or wrong ways of conduct when it comes to religion and worship. The method of worship done by the Muslims dates back to ancient times and not something practiced or started 1422 years ago…got it?

Rani : Being a decent human being is more important then worshipping God..I don't think u will understand this.

Ibrahim says; Are you being decent by lying? So you see! What you think is of No consequence when what God willed had already been established over and over again…got it?

Rani You call others inhumane but fail to understand that dividing people according to their faith and discriminating against them is also extremely inhuman and intolerant.

Ibrahim says; The very reason for our trial on this planet is to divide between the Good and the bad not dividing between nationality or ethnicity.

Read!

Matthew 10: ( spoken by Christ )

  1. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.** I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

  2. For I have come to turn "`a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

  3. a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' **

    1. "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;

Ibrahim says; we can understand that you are basically ignorant of such things and because you are Sikh ( correct me if I am wrong, just guessing since I know a Rani from indolink who is Sikh who used to behave just like you) which is a combination of teachings that was man made you have been misled…otherwise you would be able to understand such things better.

43

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*i find it very difficult to read your lenthy diatribe...so long. *
[/quote]

How true!

44

[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
** How true!**
[/quote]

Birds of a feather flock togather?

naaw! it is the only escape for the ignorant

45

Ibrahim, just read carefully.

Ibrahim says; man where did you get the notion that One Creator was a Muslim idea, did you not just above stated that God/Allah was ONE without a form ?? when Allah is one how many religions do you expect Him to create?? Do you not know that all of mankind even in Hinduism was created from a single pair??

Yes, I believe God is one but remember we do not call our Supreme Almighty Allah nor do we believe in that Adam-Eve story. We do not trace our origin to Adam-Eve. We have our own distinct idea which does not correlate with you. Now don’t you know that? How about recognising our version?

Ibrahim says; You just like to delude yourself don’t you?? If it was NEVER ever called Brahmanism, where did that word come from , maybe you thought your ex president (read what I posted earlier) was deluded like you or shall we say you are the deluded soul here?

Brahmanism is a cult which is a distortion of caste system. It claimed Brahmins to be superior by birth which is not true. Calling it Hinduism is not true. Radhakirshnan never said that, he merely referred it as a period. Try to understand English.

What you’re saying is something like this : With the Talibans conquering Afghanistan, Islam in the late 20th century was known as Wahabism. After the Barelvis beat them blue and black in the streets of Karachi, Islam was known as Barelvism.

Sheez , If there were no single authors for the Vedas , who authored it? Your claim that sages authored it comes from ??

Ibrahim says; dealing with you guys is just disgusting when one has to teach you everything only to have you brush it a side and jump on to another angle such that you can hide your shame. Go and find out who wrote Vedas and come back with an answer , just in case you won’t get lost check the encyclopedia Britannica for what else Veda vayasa did before he authored the maharbaratha..

Just bullsh*t. Say this to any Hindu that Ved Vyas wrote the Vedas and he’ll fall off his chair. So don’t make a fool of yourself persisting on this bogus idea.

Please read on.
http://www.pantheon.org/mythica/articles/v/vedas.html
http://www.indiaheritage.com/religion/hindu/vedas.htm

Veda comes from the Sanskrit word Vid means wisdom.
Vedas were composed over centuries by n number of sages and passed thro’ Smruti. There is no single author of the Vedas. Vyas wrote them down, he neither composed the Vedas, nor it was his original contribution. Encyclopedia says he divided the Vedas and not wrote it. The division of the Vedas is a different concept.

Ibrahim says oh really and I suppose your broad definition was conclusive of the TRUTH about Hinduism?? Or was it another delusion of delusions with NO IDEA as to what Hinduism is all in one single context??

You have no idea of truth about Hinduism. The definition of Hinduism I gave was from the scholars who gave it. It was not my original.

Ibrahim says; sure you do? That’s about all you seem to be able to do, just repeat and keep laughing it of….without any shame or credibility for your utterances. .

Your nagging insistence that Hinduism is a part of the Semiti inheritance is most irritating for us.

Ibrahim says; Am I the one having little knowledge about Hinduism or are you the joker who claimed Hinduism has No such texts much earlier concerning women in Hinduism?? That should be more than sufficient to determine who knows what. But never the less, tell us the philosophy behind how Brahman obtained a form when Brahman himself claimed He will HAVE NO FORM.

Do you want to know the status of women in Vedic age? Read on, even Islam didn’t guarantee this kind of freedom to women.
http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa031601a.htm

(Also for Sholay, plz check out what rights pagan Hindus gave to their women).

The question of form and formless in the context of Hionduism has seen n number of debates and have been beaten to death. Due to your hatred for us hkuffar idolators, you’re blind to these facts.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hinduism.htm

Hinduism has commonly been viewed in the west as a polytheistic religion - one which worships multiple deities: gods and goddesses.

Some have viewed it as a monotheistic religion, because it recognizes only one supreme God: the panentheistic principle of Brahman, that all reality is a unity. The entire universe is seen as one divine entity who is simultaneously at one with the universe and who transcends it as well.

Some view Hinduism as Trinitarian because Brahman is simultaneously visualized as a triad: Brahma the Creator who is continuing to create new realities
Vishnu, (Krishna) the Preserver, who preserves these new creations. Whenever dharma (eternal order, righteousness, religion, law and duty) is threatened, Vishnu travels from heaven to earth in one of ten incarnations.

Siva, the Destroyer, is at times compassionate, erotic and destructive.

Strictly speaking, Hinduism is a henotheistic religion – a religion which recognizes a single deity, but which recognizes other gods and goddesses as facets or manifestations or aspects of that supreme God.

This is a very broad outline.

Ibrahim says; man you are indeed shallow and hollow

Read!

“By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter.” – Manusmrti 11:85.

Indeed!! Because I do not accept your flase notions and beliefs on Hinduis. I earlier said Manusmriti is a doctrine and not a holy scripture. This doctrine which you claim is still enforced in India is long gone. But with your Talibani mindset you don’t understand.
And if you want to know about Hinduism’s caste system, here it is:
http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Caste_System.htm

Manu Smrti: Not a Religious Book: http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Caste_System.htm#Manu Smrti: Not a Religious Book:

Also in the page plz check out what Dr Radhakrishnan says about caste system.

What Ambedkar said is the latter day distortion of caste system. It became a tool to oppress the downtrodden. I agree 100% with what he says. This is the curse of the subcontinent and not related to Hinduism only. The Muslims, the Christians too suffer from this curse.

The rest of what you quoted is simply trash and does not merit any response. Any Tom, Di*k, Harry can say anything on Hinduism, who cares? I can also post scores of anti-Islamic quotes, how about starting with Huntington? But what will it achieve other than hatred?

You’ve conveniently overlooked what scholars, philosophers, scientists said about Hindusm. Saach bahot karwa hota hai !! How could these bloody b*****ds praise idol worshipper Yindoos whom we hate from the core of our heart?

Ibrahim says; If you are shallow and have no desire to learn the truth that is your own folly BUT the claim that Hinduism is unique is utter nonsense and IF you have any commonsense in you THINK rationally and answer my earlier questions to you that you have evaded . The notion that ONE Creator without form gave rise to hundred of idols is down right folly that only the inhumane hindus are capable of creating and worshipping.

To understand Hinduism, you have to apply logic and reasoning. Hindus believe in his Karma or deeds to achieve emanicipation. There is no short cut way in Hinduism where one can mow down civilians, trigger blasts in public places, hijack aeroplanes as a ticket to fiddle with virgin Houris in heaven. The so-called “inhuman” Hindus never ask anyone to peddle in arms and drugs, kill their detractors, wrap up their women folk in sacks and perpetrate senseless, meaningless violence and sanctify it in the name of religion. When the world civilization was in its diaper stage, it was Hinduism which said, “Srinwantu Vishwe Amritasya Putra” (Listen O the children of immortality). A religion with such deeply entrenced roots cannot be written off so easily.

I understand your hurt burns due to our idol worship. While other similar civilizations like Greek, Persian, Egyptian faded away, these “inhuman” baniya idol worshippers contine to stay and stabilize inspite of so many external threats and persistent brow beats to join the Semiti sect.

As poet Hali said

Woh deene Hejazi ka bebak beda
Nishan jiska aqsai alam mein pahuncha
Kiye passipar jisne saton samandar
Woh dooba dahane mein Ganga kay aakar.

(The fearless flotilla of Islam, whose flag fluttered over all the world, the ship that crossed the seven seas, came here and sank in the Ganga.)

Idol worshippers were there in the past, idol worship is going to stay and we’re proud of our linneage while paying due respect to the Judeo-Christian traditions. We’re least bothered if you think we’ll burn in hell fire, we won’t let you act as our fire brigade.

You choose your path to salvation, we stick to ours.

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*>>Ibrahim says; man where did you get the notion that One Creator was a Muslim idea, did you not just above stated that God/Allah was ONE without a form ?? when Allah is one how many religions do you expect Him to create?? Do you not know that all of mankind even in Hinduism was created from a single pair??

Amitayus: Yes, I believe God is one but remember we do not call our Supreme Almighty Allah nor do we believe in that Adam-Eve story. *

Ibrahim says: Do you have the capability to discern for yourself and evaluate the facts for yourself or are you going to stay within the boundary markers you or your ancestors had established for you?

This is what, it all boils down to.!!! Answer this first.

Now coming to your acknowledgement that “God is one without a form ” and after words believing that there are so many idols of HIM is absurd ..don’t you think so? ( does not matter what you call him by, the fact is He cannot have any form whatsoever)

  • Amitayus: We do not trace our origin to Adam-Eve. We have our own distinct idea which does not correlate with you. Now don’t you know that? *

Ibrahim says: Now your assertion that you do not trace your origin to Adam/manu and to Allah is due to your and most hindus lack of knowledge ..you see, the word Adam and the word manu means “man” , hence what you know as Adam in English was in fact Manu in the Sanskrit language . It is on account of the language the details have changed ( meaning the Sanskrit scripture is a translation and not an original revelation) which had evolved to become an idol worshipping doctrine.

  • Amitayus: How about recognising our version? *

Ibrahim says; Your version is an erroneous version, based on the knowledge I have, how can I accept your version? Have you not read what I am conveying concerning various verses that are found in Hinduism which points the finger to Islam, why did you reject them without considering them?

  • Ibrahim says; You just like to delude yourself don’t you?? If it was NEVER ever called Brahmanism, where did that word come from , maybe you thought your ex president (read what I posted earlier) was deluded like you or shall we say you are the deluded soul here?

Amitayus: Brahmanism is a cult which is a distortion of caste system. It claimed Brahmins to be superior by birth which is not true. Calling it Hinduism is not true. Radhakirshnan never said that, he merely referred it as a period. Try to understand English. *

Ibrahim says; First you denied its existence now you say it’s a cult, how nice! Brahmanism is not a cult it was one of the evolution that came through the original teachings that was revealed to Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) ..this is just like all the other philosophies in current Hinduism including Buddhism and Zoroastrianism which was sent to reform the hindus

*>>>Sheez , If there were no single authors for the Vedas , who authored it? Your claim that sages authored it comes from ??

Ibrahim says; dealing with you guys is just disgusting when one has to teach you everything only to have you brush it a side and jump on to another angle such that you can hide your shame. Go and find out who wrote Vedas and come back with an answer , just in case you won’t get lost check the encyclopedia Britannica for what else Veda vayasa did before he authored the maharbaratha..

Amitayus: Just bullsh*t. Say this to any Hindu that Ved Vyas wrote the Vedas and he’ll fall off his chair. So don’t make a fool of yourself persisting on this bogus idea. *

Ibrahim says; So you snipped off the excerpt from Britannica to make your silly assertions?? Why don’t you try telling that to the publishers of the Encyclopedia Britannica …maybe you will be able to correct them, that is If there is any truth in your version?

  • Amitayus: Veda comes from the Sanskrit word Vid means wisdom. Vedas were composed over centuries by n number of sages and passed thro’ Smruti. *

Ibrahim says; man earlier you denied smrti altogether and now you claim it passed through smrti??

*Amitayus: There is no single author of the Vedas. Vyas wrote them down, he neither composed the Vedas, nor it was his original contribution. Encyclopedia says he divided the Vedas and not wrote it. The division of the Vedas is a different concept. *

Ibrahim says; You don’t seem to get it do you?? WHO TAUGHT HIM THOSE THINGS?? Veda vayasa translated the Vedas into Sanskrit , HE heard it from the hermits in the forest, so far as the current Sanskrit version is concerned he was the compiler of them…got it?

**The hermits did not compile them because they were (most likely) not conversant in Sanskrit . They were disciples which prophets send out to distant countries to convey the message of Allah to all of mankind. **

Revelations were given to prophets who lived in the middle east and this was transmitted to other regions by their disciples who set out to teach the world . Hence what veda vayasa did was compile them in the Sanskrit language and than divide them according to the relevant prophet. The current divided works that hindus posses is hence the works of Veda vayasa and NOT the original transmission that the hermits were transmitting ( which they heard from the Prophet in the middle east) .

This is like I told you something’s and then you wrote them down in your mother tongue and than after, you separated them according to your knowledge and published them…hence technically those are your works…got it?

*>>>Ibrahim says oh really and I suppose your broad definition was conclusive of the TRUTH about Hinduism?? Or was it another delusion of delusions with NO IDEA as to what Hinduism is all in one single context??

Amitayus: You have no idea of truth about Hinduism. The definition of Hinduism I gave was from the scholars who gave it. It was not my original. *

Ibrahim says; Apparently they swallowed the smrtis, for without the smrti’s one cannot know many aspects of what is to be done in Hinduism. This is like throwing away the hadiths, in which case Muslims might not even know how to pray…got it??

In other words it amounts to FRAUD and any hindu scholar who does that, cannot possibly be a hindu scholar But a person who wishes to hide the facts , since many things written in the smrtis are absurd and inhumane.

*>>>Ibrahim says; sure you do? That’s about all you seem to be able to do, just repeat and keep laughing it of….without any shame or credibility for your utterances. .

Amitayus: Your nagging insistence that Hinduism is a part of the Semiti inheritance is most irritating for us. *

Ibrahim says; hey, my knowledge is based on facts , either try and dispute them with facts or If you have NO shame do as you like…but don’t expect me to lie about matters which are CLEAR to researchers.

*>>>Ibrahim says; Am I the one having little knowledge about Hinduism or are you the joker who claimed Hinduism has No such texts much earlier concerning women in Hinduism?? That should be more than sufficient to determine who knows what. But never the less, tell us the philosophy behind how Brahman obtained a form when Brahman himself claimed He will HAVE NO FORM. *

Amitayus: gives URL’s

Ibrahim says; Oh please don’t point me to web sites…..tell us how you, yes you, a so called educated person have lost your senses, so much so that you cannot discern such simple things like when your own scriptures claims Allah is One and has NO form, you had been deluded to believe there are about 3300+? , gods/goddesses that can substitute him or part of him or him in that form??

  • Amitayus: Strictly speaking, Hinduism is a henotheistic religion – a religion which recognizes a single deity, but which recognizes other gods and goddesses as facets or manifestations or aspects of that supreme God. This is a very broad outline. *

Ibrahim says; That is your current belief BUT NOT what your scriptures says so,

so read!

“The Formless Supreme Spirit that pervades the universe can have NO MATERIAL REPRESENTATION, LIKENESS OR IMAGE.” – Yajur Veda 32:3.

Hence the above verse reveals that you willfully negated the truth and all your education has not given you much senses to discern the TRUTH by yourself!

  • Ibrahim says; man you are indeed shallow and hollow

Read!

“By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter.” – Manusmrti 11:85.

Amitayus: Indeed!! Because I do not accept your flase notions and beliefs on Hinduis. I earlier said Manusmriti is a doctrine and not a holy scripture. This doctrine which you claim is still enforced in India is long gone. But with your Talibani mindset you don’t understand.*

Ibrahim says; manu smrti is the basis for the Brahmin code of conduct, the Brahmins are your priests, so making foolish comments like above is rather silly but I cannot change your perception until you are willing to accept the TRUTH.

Ibrahim says. You must be very naive to follow one web site and believe that manu smrti is not a religious book! Indeed current hindus are vehemently trying to deny manu smrti because of its contents BUT your priest cannot be priest If they do not follow it…so go find out from your priests where his knowledge is derived from.

Read!

Karmamarga	 - The Manavadharmasastra, or the Laws of Manu, written between 200 BCE and 200 CE. **The Laws of Manu are based on earlier Vedic and Hindu books, generally referred to as the Sutras, of which Manu's is the most important.** The Sutras date back to about 600 BCE. The Laws of Manu lay out the Hindu caste system, describe the stages of life, and the rounds of life.

** BTW why did you cut off the rig veda quote, was that not telling you that Brahmins are born Brahmins?? **

Read!

“His (Purusa’s) mouth became the Brahmin; his arms were made into the Ksatriya, his thighs the Vaisya, and from his feet the Sudra was born.” – Rig Veda 10:90:12.

  • Ibrahim says; If you are shallow and have no desire to learn the truth that is your own folly BUT the claim that Hinduism is unique is utter nonsense and IF you have any commonsense in you THINK rationally and answer my earlier questions to you that you have evaded . The notion that ONE Creator without form gave rise to hundred of idols is down right folly that only the inhumane hindus are capable of creating and worshipping.

Amitayus: To understand Hinduism, you have to apply logic and reasoning. Hindus believe in his Karma or deeds to achieve emanicipation. *

Ibrahim says; Here is your delusion or false belief to start with!!

Hinduism teaches that once you die you will go to hell or heaven and after going to hell or heaven the soul is reborn again to suffer for his past karma, that is not within LOGIC or sound REASON…it amounts to foolishness…don’t you think so??.

Such teachings of rebirth are Not conveyed in essence but are later works that got added to hindu philosophy…got it?

  • Amitayus: Idol worshippers were there in the past, idol worship is going to stay and we’re proud of our linneage while paying due respect to the Judeo-Christian traditions. We’re least bothered if you think we’ll burn in hell fire, we won’t let you act as our fire brigade. You choose your path to salvation, we stick to ours.*

Ibrahim says; Let there be NO compulsion in religion ( 2:256) is a divine statement from Allah (swt) so you are NOT compelled to follow anyone BUT I am conveying the TRUTH for those who haves senses that function, as for you it is obvious you have set your boundaries and will not be willing to use your brains …that is not and NEVER will be a problem for me.

Nevertheless my duty to convey the TRUTH about what I know for certain, is a requirement that I have to fulfill , only when I fulfill what I learnt I will be given what I know not…hence do not feel that I am forcing you to convert to Islam.

I provide info on the basis of my knowledge in public forums to those who are seeking knowledge IF you have the courage or ability to deny/dispute/discredit them, by all means BUT if you don’t know for sure and you lack your senses and it conflicts with your beliefs that is something that you have to learn to live with.

I hope you understand that I am not objecting to what you chose to do with your life But objecting to false teachings being conveyed on the net which may mislead my brothers and sisters

BTW I don’t consider you anything other than a , misled “brother” a human being, one that came from the same single creation that Allah (swt) created , unless you prove me otherwise.

Devoted to Truth

Ibrahim

In matters of taste , swim with current ; in matters of principal stand like a rock.

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To all Hindus

It seems as though there is a language barrier here. Most Hindus do NOT understand plain English and are therefore resulting to ludicrous comments and theories, (Kumar & Rani) specifically.

These comments are a sign of frustration and fear. Nevermind, I'm sure you are not the first and definitely not the last.

The bottom line is that Hindus may argue until the cows come home about their Manmade Articles of Faith etc. But the Muslims have one thing that No Hindu will EVER have.

The Last Divine Protected Sripture. The QUR'AAN.

Time and time again we have given evidence from your own Scriptures, but you still disagree.

The Qur'aan sums you up perfectly:

015.014 Even if We opened out to them a gate from heaven, and they were to continue (all day) ascending therein,

015.015 They would only say: "Our eyes have been intoxicated: Nay, we have been bewitched by sorcery."

The challenge to ALL MANKIND from the Qur'aan is still outstanding. Please be brave enough and ask your Rishis to accept the challenge.

All your arguments and counter arguments 'go through my left ear and out of my right ear'.

48

This will be my last post in this threead as no use locking horns with ignorants who boast of their ignorance and make it a tool to spread falsehood.

Ibrahim says; man earlier you denied smrti altogether and now you claim it passed through smrti??

By Smruti I meant listening and passing them thro’ mouth. I’m not talking about Manu Smriti. Please understand the difference between Smriti and Smruti.

Like Islam did have people who memorized the entire Qu’ran and passed it thro’ generations.

The last part is Ibrahim’s gem. I request all my Hindu friends to read it carefully. But beware, book a seat in the ICCU of your nearest hospital as it is likely to cause your heart attack.

**Ibrahim says; You don’t seem to get it do you?? WHO TAUGHT HIM THOSE THINGS?? Veda vayasa translated the Vedas into Sanskrit , HE heard it from the hermits in the forest, so far as the current Sanskrit version is concerned he was the compiler of them…got it?

The hermits did not compile them because they were (most likely) not conversant in Sanskrit . They were disciples which prophets send out to distant countries to convey the message of Allah to all of mankind.

Revelations were given to prophets who lived in the middle east and this was transmitted to other regions by their disciples who set out to teach the world . Hence what veda vayasa did was compile them in the Sanskrit language and than divide them according to the relevant prophet. The current divided works that hindus posses is hence the works of Veda vayasa and NOT the original transmission that the hermits were transmitting ( which they heard from the Prophet in the middle east).**

Just wonder what pot-induced hallucination can achieve… or is it heroin?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

I’ve even lost my sense to laugh… The Veda’s revelation was from the Prophet in the middle east…the hermits didn’t know Sanskrit…what next, I won’t be surprised if our dear friend Ibrahim next claim Vedas originated from Qu’ran and actually its distortion. Or dig out the original Arabic version of the Vedas from the sands of Arabian desert.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

With this frame of knowledge, it is quite understandable why Ibrahim fails to inderstand monotheistic aspect of Hinduism and the significance of idol worship.

Ibrahim says; Here is your delusion or false belief to start with!!

Hinduism teaches that once you die you will go to hell or heaven and after going to hell or heaven the soul is reborn again to suffer for his past karma, that is not within LOGIC or sound REASON…it amounts to foolishness…don’t you think so??.

Some people kill civilians, hijack aeroplanes, bomb public places and think these are the means to fondle virgin houris in heaven. Foolishness..isn’t it?

There is no point barking the wrong tree. Please acquire some basic knowledge on Hinduism and then come back. We may have some intelligent discussions. If you need any help to understand the real truth on Hinduism, let us know. Competent Hindu friends here will help you out.

I have nothing against you personally, I again repeat, I respect your faith. You may have tons of knowledge on Islam but whatever you said about Hinduism is totally misconceived and misplaced. Spreading this kind of lies about other’s religion in order to promote own religion’s superiority is pathetic. Even more disgusting is to drag all other religions under the supreme domain of your own belief. Unless you get out of this mindset, no point in carrying out discussions.

Posted by Sholay

The bottom line is that Hindus may argue until the cows come home about their Manmade Articles of Faith etc. But the Muslims have one thing that No Hindu will EVER have.

The Last Divine Protected Sripture. The QUR’AAN.

Great. I respect your belief and your right to think so. But for heaven’s sake keep your belief to yourself. No need to spin doctor it to impose on an alien religion and claim your supremacy. And also do not expect us buying your version of ‘Truth’.

Peace…

[This message has been edited by Amitayus (edited August 13, 2001).]

49

Amitayus

No need to be bitter!

The fact that Muslims are the most superior and Kafirs i.e. Hindus etc are the most inferior has been confirmed by the Creator Himself.

098.006 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the

Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

098.007 Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.

The fact that the Qur'aan is the ultimate Truth and free from corruption has also been confirmed by the Creator Himself:

002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

015.009 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

The above confirms my stand point.

Now, what also goes in my favour is that the Qur'aan is the only Scripture on the face of the earth that is in it's original format, without a change of a letter!

When you've got an advantage similar to mine, then no doubt you would be in a position to make the statements that I have made.

The only people who have your replys are the ones who are FEARFUL of the Truth.

Once you can claim the above advantages, then you too will be in a position to make statements.

OR you can do what the WHITE CHRISTIANS did to the BLACKS in justifying RACISM AND SLAVERY, by using the Bible and quoting the curse of NOAH! In other words LIE!!!!!!

When you excercise the Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Movement and Freedom of Choice. The only people that will disagree are the those that are in FEAR!!

IN OTHER WORDS YOU ARE IN A LOSE v LOSE SITUATION.

50

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Amitayus:
*Ibrahim says; man earlier you denied smrti altogether and now you claim it passed through smrti??

Amitayus: By Smruti I meant listening and passing them thro' mouth. I'm not talking about Manu Smriti. Please understand the difference between Smriti and Smruti. *

Ibrahim says; Man, you guys (hindus) are so silly sometimes I just don’t know to laugh or to cry and it is indeed pitiful that the human being that Allah created can become so foolish!

First there is only one Sanskrit word known as smrti NOT smurti ( Europeans may try to pronounce the “m” and end up with “mu” to write it as smurti when in fact it is only read as smrti in Sanskrit .

Second smrti means :-

the whole body of sacred tradition or what is remembered by human teachers (in contradistinction to {sruti} or what is directly heard or revealed to the Rishis ; in its widest acceptation this use of the term Smriti includes the 6 Vedangas , the Sutras both {zrauta} and {gRhya} , the law-books of Manu &c. [see next] ; the Itihasas [e.g. the Mahabharata and Ramayana] , the Puranas and the Nitisastras ;

(source: Sanskrit lexicon)

SO LEARN AND STOP MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF !!! I did not talk about manu smrti , that is what your incompetence led you to believe.

  • Amitayus: Like Islam did have people who memorized the entire Qu'ran and passed it thro' generations. *

Ibrahim says: Yes!!! all revelations were memorized and that is how there were put together when they vanished on account of man’s alterations. Not only that when the message was INTACT this acted as a safe guard against its corruption but as generations progressed people failed to memorize and eventually lost the message in its entirety when the written texts were edited or altered by man.

*Ibrahim says; You don’t seem to get it do you?? WHO TAUGHT HIM THOSE THINGS?? Veda vayasa translated the Vedas into Sanskrit , HE heard it from the hermits in the forest, so far as the current Sanskrit version is concerned he was the compiler of them…got it?

Amitayus: Rambling and ranting (snipped)

Ibrahim says: ARE YOU CAPABLE ENOUGH TO ANSWER THE QUESTION OF JUST ELUDE THEM BY MAKING DUBIOUS COMMENTS???

  • Ibrahim says; Here is your delusion or false belief to start with!!

Hinduism teaches that once you die you will go to hell or heaven and after going to hell or heaven the soul is reborn again to suffer for his past karma, that is not within LOGIC or sound REASON…it amounts to foolishness…don’t you think so??. *

Amitayus: Some people kill civilians, hijack aeroplanes, bomb public places and think these are the means to fondle virgin houris in heaven. Foolishness..isn't it?

Ibrahim says; where are such teachings taught in Islam?? Or is this the only option you have in order to escape from your follies???

Amitayus: Rambling and ranting (snipped)

Ibrahim says: ARE YOU CAPABLE ENOUGH TO ANSWER THE QUESTION OF JUST ELUDE THEM BY MAKING DUBIOUS COMMENTS???

  • Amitayus: I have nothing against you personally, I again repeat, I respect your faith. You may have tons of knowledge on Islam but whatever you said about Hinduism is totally misconceived and misplaced. *

** Ibrahim says; If that is the case why have you been swallowing your spit and unable to answer my questions?? **
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Life is a grindstone it either polishes you up or grinds you down, Amitayus! it is sad to note that you have been ground down