Srinagar: Tens of Thousands Protest Illegal Land Sale, Indian Occupation

If you want to use religion for political purposes, then atleast be genuine about it. Gandhi was against voilence ....... be it by the british or even by his fellow country men. Same way if Mirwaiz had to invoke the Quran, he should have invoked it in the case of people who are destroying the Dal by illegal construction. By his actions not to speak against the people who have illegaly occupied parts of Dal and leading to its death, he has shown his bipartisan attitude to principles. The problem is that it is his support base that is responsible for most of the illegal construction, hence his feeble effort at garbage collection. If he were a true leader he would have atleast given a call for stoppage of illegal construction and then tackled the already exisitng illegal construction.

On the effort of Indian authorities, the high court had passed an order for demolishing the illegal strutures ..... let us see how that part goes.

People there don't want to be part of Kashmir--that is the present situation. Your points about "history" have no merit at all and have been proven wrong by all the posters you mention above, and I continue to amazed at your shamelessness of accusing others of whining while you are the biggest whiner around

Ha ha good, did you ever think that , that they wanted jaunagadh as a bargaining chip for kashmir. Liaquat Ali Khan opinion on accession is well know and documented. He wanted the rulers to decide whom to join.

Yes it is my dear friend. You are sensationalizing the people killed. There is no accurate number as to how many were killed and how many went to POK ( all they say is 20k are missing). No numbers for the hindus killed or migrated from you, till last few post and that too a passing reference. I admit that you are very well aware of kashmirs non hindu history then why are you just sensationalizing a part of the population death while keeping mum on the other.

Debatable, more like having seen how their brothers were faring across the border in the north punjab province. There is a strong punjab influence in these areas I believe.

I dont know what you call a person who is been appointed specifically at the instance of Jinnah. Pakistan showed India the way how to handle rebellious nawabs. You should also read
**Thus when such villages declared that they had freed themselves from the Nizams regime, the government of India gave them no support. Instead, events were left to follow their own course much to the resentment of militant Socialists who claimed later( in mid 1948) that
*if the Indian union had encouraged these free zones and accepted their accession… as they rose up in revolt, Hyderbad would have been a proud province of the Indian union. ***

http://books.google.com/books?id=Loiq3YrFy40C&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=Mir+Laik+Ali+&source=web&ots=_S2wkpIQAy&sig=zP54NFLy73EEyDc9_3VHmUtbyCw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA200,M1
And about Kak. He was taken out at the instance of Nehru who was a great friend of your Sheikh Abdullah. With kak in , Sheikhs political agenda would not have prospered.
Janab, I will hand it to you for the well written, grammatically correct, propaganda. I dont have the time or the patience to keep arguing about these things. Kashmir problem is messed up because of its people, Pakistan and to lesser extent India. None of the three parties can agree on one thing. When pathans invaded, people in the valley wanted India to take over. India playing a moral high ground and believing that kashmiris would be thankful to India decided to have the plebiscite. At that point Pakistan rejected the plebiscite request. After that with proxy war from Pakistan, kashmiris were provoked first by Sheikh abdullah and then later by the separatist organization to rebel against Indian govt. India did make it worse by using too much excessive force.

Re: Srinagar: Tens of Thousands Protest Illegal Land Sale, Indian Occupation

^

So you’re saying the only reason India doesnt hold a plebiscite after proclaiming thats the way forward is that Kashmiries arent thankful to India? :hehe:

Re: Srinagar: Tens of Thousands Protest Illegal Land Sale, Indian Occupation

Ravage,

Nehru did not have constitutional authority to commit any such thing. In spite of that we would have honored that commitment if Pakistan had fulfilled the condition imposed on it, namely withdrawal of all Pakistani forces out of Kashmir. Pakistan broke that condition and therefore there was/is no deal.

What you are asking is like you go to a shop, bargain down a $10 widget to $8 and then refuse to pay even that $8 but still shout at the shop keeper for not giving you the widget.

Well Duh....there are parts of pakistan at present, where ppl don't want to be a part of pakistan. Do you give them AZAD PAKISTAN or what ? A lot of freedom fighters (Indian rats) in Karachi were crushed some time ago.....Do you think that action was right or wrong ?

Why should your opinion about the merit of history matter? A rat's rear matters more than that.

How the heck do you prove history wrong? You and other Janab groupies are trying to hide from it but that doesn't amount to any disproving.

As to whining, I don't need anything from you' you guys are the ones looking to get Kashmir from us and so the whining can only come from you because you ain't getting it

How did a rats rear come into the discussion? Why are you obsessed with rears? Didyou perhaps lose yours in a discussion? The bottom line is no one here is convinced by you so you can cry and whine all you want no one is buying it. Kashmiris are still asking for freedom and will get it one day and not you nor anyone can do anything to stop it.

When I saw your whining it reminded me of rats. And then when you keep talking about 'bottom line' I concluded about your obsession hence rat+bottom line = rat's rear. samja?

Pakistanis in the name of Kashmiris (heard the term proxy war? your own leaders have admitted this) are asking for separation from India, not freedom for Kashmir. Starting from Jinnah every one of your elected and couped-in 'leaders' have continually whined about it. Your fearless commando even tried to occupy it......all for naught. So you tell me where the whining is coming from.

Oh, also if you don't want to stop whining, go right ahead and keep whining. Add some chest beating too for the rhythm

Blah Blah blah, the title of this thread is a fact and no amount of squirming can change that.

I really pity you. You guys have lost the dream of Kashmir, have lost the wars to grab it, have lost the proxy wars too and now lost the internet arguments too. If all that's left is cheap thrills of some senseless thread titles, go for it.

You're right. In the summer of 1947, the popularly elected legislative assembly of J&K unanimously passed a bill demanding that the Maharaja merge the state with Pakistan. If the democratic process had just been followed, none of this would have happened.

The land transfer must be formally revoked first.

Until that's been done, there is absolutely no reason to believe that this isn't yet another instance of the Indian government lying to/tricking the Kashmiri people with their smoke & mirrors. If they actually do follow though and do what they're saying then I certainly don't have a problem with it, and I don't anticipate most other Kashmiris having any objections either. This has never been an issue of keeping the yatris out of Kashmir.

Dismiss their efforts all you want...it won't change the fact that Green Kashmir has done more for the preservation of Dal Lake than the Indian government ever has or ever will.

It's never going to happen. You want to know why? Most of the illegal structures named by the HC are owned by the Indian government/military, or their Kashmiri cronies. The HC ordered that virtually everything along the exclusive Boulevard Road be torn down...that includes dozens of government offices, the government owned Centaur Hotel, the Royal Springs Golf Club (next door to the hotel...also government owned), the convention center, and a number of hotels and businesses owned Kashmiri businessmen who are cozy with the Indian administration.

First of all...let me just point out how, in your haste to throw together a response, you've completely contradicted yourself. If Pakistan did indeed eventually accept Junagadh's accession so it could be used as a bargaining chip, then its entire case would depend on rejecting the will of the rulers in favor of plebiscite (thereby letting India have Junagadh and claiming Kashmir). I repeat...such an arrangement would necessitate rejecting the will of the ruler...which pretty much flies in the face of your absurd claim that LAK wanted to uphold the will of the rulers over the will of the people. It also doesn't make sense given the fact that in early October, 1947, the GOP issued the following statement in reference to the Junagadh situation: *"The Pakistan Government has also informed the Government of India of their willingness to discuss the conditions and circumstances in which a plebiscite should be taken by any state or states."

*India, on the other hand, upholds the concept of the plebiscite in Junagadh...and the instrument of accession in J&K...pure hypocrisy, plain and simple.

The Times of London reported that 237,000 had been killed as of October 10, 1947. If you can't accept even the most basic facts, then that's just pathetic.

If you bothered actually reading anything on the topic rather than just speculating/making things up as you go along, you'd already know that the rebellion in Poonch began as a no-tax campaign.

Even if that is true, how is it any different from Gandhi & Nehru insisting that the Maharaja fire Kak and appoint Mehr Chand Mahajan instead?

Few people have betrayed us, and done more to harm to the Kashmiri cause than Nehru and Sheikh Abdullah. And as for Nehru's "friendship"...spare me, we all know what a treacherous snake the man turned out to be...using Sheikh Abdullah for all he was worth and then throwing his alleged "friend" in jail without any trial or charges. What a friendship!

Ha ha ha. And what, pray tell, are you basing that nonsense on? Opposition to the Pathan invasion hardly constitutes a desire for an Indian takeover.

If the people in the Valley had any interest in Indian occupation, lord knows the GOI would have just held the plebiscite and silenced Pakistan once and for all like in Junagadh. The fact of the matter is that the Indian authorities have known since day one just how hated Indian rule is in Kashmir.

Wow, good imagination. Let me ask you one thing, why did pakistan finally 20 days after decide to accept junagadh if it ever wanted the will of the people to override the will of the ruler. This is your contradiction or for that matter Pakistans contradiction. They wanted junagadh but were not sure weather they can keep it. Hence they wanted it as a bargaining point with India on Kashmir. I dont understand how this can be a contradiction. You are just wobbling here with your reasoning.

Can you stop issuing statements about the guppies and just write facts.
I will not deny that those were killed. In many princely state there was atrocities of equal nature. Including many in my home state kerala, did you ever here of mappila revolt. Nobody keeps a count of how many people killed. Nobody did a body count did they.

Began may be, but the will to join their western brothers was quite evident in their revolt. Much of the rebellion were lead by people decommissioned from the royal indian army.

kak had put Sheikh in prison, even Nehru was not allowed to come to Kashmir to plead for the release of Sheikh. Do you think if a deal was struck Sheikh would like to see Kak still holding office.

Oh great, it was the same Sheikh abdullah when he was put to jail, kashmiris went on a complete strike. The same man was hailed by you know who as the sheiri kashmir . Now you say he was also treacherous. So who represent kashmiri people, YOU.

But your lord Sheikh thought that way my dear.

So what did they want actually. Who was one to determine that. India gave too much importance to Sheilkh abdullah as he was the only leader in kashmir of any repute.

Wel i did check on the Times archives for news .... on October 10, 1947 the only news they carried about India was "the future of Junagadh - Pakistan agrees to plebiscite"no mention of 237,000 killed in Jammu !!!!
Also i check "Azad Kashmir"governemnt website. It is 3w.ajak.pk. and they also dont seem to remember this massacre. Infact they say the following

"In Jammu and Kashmir state. the situation was the reverse. The ruler of the State was a Hindu. while the population was overwhelmingly Muslim and wanted to join Pakistan. In this case. India consistently pressurized the Hindu Ruler to accede to India Apprehending that the Hindu ruler was likely to succumb to Indian pressure, the people of Jammu and Kashmir rose against him. forcing him to flee from Srinagar. the capital of the State. They formed their own government on 24th October. 1947. On 27th of October. 1947, the Government of India alleged that the ruler had acceded to India on the basis of a fraudulent instrument of accession. sent its forces into the State and occupied a large part of Jammu and Kashmir."

No mention of any constituent assembly or killings in Jammu. Maybe it is in your mind that these things happend and maybe if you keep on repeating them they will be taken as truth ...... I can give you more links about it from Indian website ... but you will doubt the authenticity of these. So you check the "Azad Kashmir"government website on what happened..... so long

I have no qualms with what Green Kashmir is doing for Dal lake. It is the silence of Mirwaiz on illegal construction which is baffling. If all the illegal structures are built by India and its cronies … then what stops him in giving call to remove them !!!

Another environmentalist is Geelani Sahab … his take on Mughal road http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3185

"Referring to the delay in construction of Mughal road, Geelani said that India is delaying its construction “strategically.” “India never wants to construct a link between Kashmir, Poonch and Rajouri, as it wants Muslims to remain divided,” he said, adding, “They make roads for their own convenience and first think of their own problem areas.”

This same Mugal road is being opposed by Green Kashmir for environmental reasons … but Geelani sahib doesn’t think so … http://www.downtoearth.org.in/full6.asp?foldername=20071015&filename=news&sec_id=50&sid=35

Apparently you didn’t check the AJK website carefully enough:
Commenting on the Raja’s reign of terror, the Times of London observed:
“237,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated, unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border by the force of the Dogra State headed by the Maharaja in person”.

You’ll also see the very same passage referenced by:
The Cambridge History of Islam
Sabrang

The level of denial among you people is truly mind-boggling.
%between%

:)..**…OK people quit arguing for nothing…Kashmir Govt reversed their decision:

**** Indian Kashmir revokes decision to hand over land to Hindus:…:biggthumb**

**

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080701/wl_sthasia_afp/indiakashmirunrestreligionhindus_080701143411
**

Re: Srinagar: Tens of Thousands Protest Illegal Land Sale, Indian Occupation

As far as the public is concerned the protests have been successful. Thus the decisions were withdrawn and claims given up. If Kashmiris continue to raise their voice, i'm sure in the examplry democratic system of India, their just and rightful demands will be met to avoid any international embarrasement.

I think this thread has served its purpose and should now be closed. Good contribution everyone. Thank you. :)