Re: Srinagar: Tens of Thousands Protest Illegal Land Sale, Indian Occupation
^ fact that we're talking about pandits leaving in 1989 and not 1947 suggests that there has historically been more to the movement than religious extremism.
furthermore, if this was merely a case of Muslim bigotry and had nothing to do with Kashmiries having a sense of identity distinct from India then you wouldnt see this confined to Kashmir. It would be easy to spread this to other parts of India. Its not as if Pakistan doesnt have incentive to try.
But you see a contiguous block of people who have been campaigning for freedom for decades before you point to this pandits issue. Just that eliminates general Muslim extremism as the cause for it.
That said Islam is always an important part of any Muslim group's identity, and if any excesses occur in Islam's name that is regrettable.
The name was officially changed during Dogra times...the UN maps reflect the same.
Who cares what you people claim it should be called? The people of Kashmir have called it Islamabad for centuries, and will continue to do so.
You mean to say JKLF does not represent the sentiments of Kashmiri people !!! Sounds a bit strange . This "movement"to call Anantnag is a recent development and that is why JKLF website does not reflect it.
Explain then why Hindus were driven away from Kashmir. I cannot believe Janab balbbering that jagmohan did all this. There were very learned Kshmiri pandits and historians and believe the Jihadi mentality at the start of 1989 lead to pandits leaving Kashmir. They were systematically targeted and even mosques became preaching ground for hatred against Kashsmiri pandits.
According to the Indian government itself, a grand total of 209 Pandits have been killed in Kashmir from 1989-present. Even if we (falsely) assume that they were all killed in a single orgy of anti-Pandit violence from 1989-90, do you honestly expect me to believe that's all it took to make at least 100,000 people independently decide to pack their bags and leave within a matter of months. And what about the other religious minorities in Kashmir? The Sikhs are a significantly smaller, poorer, more powerless community...making them much easier targets. And yet, there has been no Sikh exodus from Kashmir...in fact, even after the highly-suspicious Chattisinghpora massacre, when the Advani openly offered them protection/resettlement in India, their leaders refused and said their Muslim neighbors had never been hostile to them. Why have the Sikhs been so immune to this "Jihadi mentality?"
As for "aam banda" and the Anantnag/Islamabad issue...thank you for making it abundantly clear how little you know about Kashmir...I must say I find your arrogance (pretending to be some kind of an expert on Kashmiri colloquialisms despite never having set foot in Kashmir) to be rather amusing.
Even if we (falsely) assume that they were all killed in a single orgy of anti-Pandit violence from 1989-90, do you honestly expect me to believe that's all it took to make at least 100,000 people independently decide to pack their bags and leave within a matter of months. And what about the other religious minorities in Kashmir? .
So it is ok for you to think that a 100,000 people will shift in a matter of days because someone offered them something. These people had been living there for centuries ... what made them leave their established life for an unknown future. When you left Kashmir for US did you just get up one day and leave or you planned it and then left. If so many people left in such a short notice there has to be something and honestly they have not been proved wrong. Look at this incident, what are the reasons give for these protests, this is illegal land transfer. No one is going to be living in where to reach you have to walk for a day. If india had to change the demographics, it would have been easier to put people close to the army cantt in Srinagar. Why go up to almost 3000 mts to a place which is open only for a couple of months?
The fact of the matter is a section of the popluation id being charged up on religious lines.
So it is ok for you to think that a 100,000 people will shift in a matter of days because someone offered them something. These people had been living there for centuries ... what made them leave their established life for an unknown future.
They left because the Indian government did its best to play up the threats against them and build up mass hysteria. The actual data on the "targeted killings" simply doesn't match up with the scale of the response.
And again, if this was really an issue of "Jihadi mentality" why have the Sikhs been spared?
If india had to change the demographics, it would have been easier to put people close to the army cantt in Srinagar. Why go up to almost 3000 mts to a place which is open only for a couple of months.
You don't think they've done that already? There were huge protests in Kashmir when the Indian government started building homes and settling the families of Indian military forces in Kashmir too. The census data speaks for itself...the Muslim population of J&K is gradually being marginalized.
And again, if this was really an issue of "Jihadi mentality" why have the Sikhs been spared?
You don't think they've done that already? There were huge protests in Kashmir when the Indian government started building homes and settling the families of Indian military forces in Kashmir too. The census data speaks for itself...the Muslim population of J&K is gradually being marginalized.
Sikhs were brother is arms so to say .... Paksitan was supporting the sikh militancy so they had no interest in upseting that part of the poluation. Kashmiri pandits were one of the "symbols"of India in kashmir. So they had to be forced out.
Families of Indian forces have been living in kashmir .... that does not change the demographics of kashmir. You cannot do anything in kashmir without being a state subject ...... so what change in demographics you are talking about
Oh please...so now the Sikhs are part and parcel of the Islamist jihadi plot against the Hindus in Kashmir? I suppose the same is true of all the Buddhists, and all the other tiny religious minorities that have lived through the past 20 years in Kashmir without any significant problems.
Oh please...so now the Sikhs are part and parcel of the Islamist jihadi plot against the Hindus in Kashmir? I suppose the same is true of all the Buddhists, and all the other tiny religious minorities that have lived through the past 20 years in Kashmir without any significant problems.
You mean to say the Kashmiri muslims did not try this stunt in Leh .... they got badly thrashed there. The fact remains that a section of kashmiri muslims always felt that if kashmiri pandits were pushed out that would be a victory for them (that is the reason why you dont find even a single kashmiri pandit / sikh / buddhist / christian part of any sepratist movement) ....... but it turned out otherwise .... now they realize the blunder they made that is why even in this aggitation for land .... they are saying yatra will not be stopped. Well for the last so many years people have been taking this yatra and no one has provided basic facilities for the yatries. They still have to stay in tents and have to use outdoors toilet facilities. And that was precisely what was going to be built at this location and hopefully in more location. what is wrong with that?
They were insignificant janab. The threats were specifically aimed at the hindu pandits.
The threats were aimed specifically at people active in the Indian occupation...regardless of what religion they belonged to. Perhaps because Pandits always dominated the civil service/bureaucracy, a disproportionate number of them were killed.
In the fall of 1947, at the peak of the riots, an estimated 200 Muslims were being killed every day in Delhi (20-25,000 total)...still, 30% of the city's Muslim population stayed put. And yet, a grand total of less than 209 deaths somehow cleared out virtually all of Kashmir's Hindu population. Like I said before, the casualties and the scale of the response simply don't add up...it reeks of government involvement.
Re: Srinagar: Tens of Thousands Protest Illegal Land Sale, Indian Occupation
Going back to the original topic of the thread...
According to the Kashmiri media, between 50-100,000 protesters marched on Lal Chowk in Srinagar, and raised Pakistani flags on the clock tower (where occupation forced traditionally raise the Indian flag on Indian national holidays). Protests in smaller cities across Kashmir also drew tens of thousands...it looks like the Indian government's pathetic attempt at illegally selling off Kashmiri land has sparked some of the biggest pro-azadi protests since the early 1990s.
According to the Kashmiri media, between 50-100,000 protesters marched on Lal Chowk in Srinagar, and raised Pakistani flags on the clock tower (where occupation forced traditionally raise the Indian flag on Indian national holidays). Protests in smaller cities across Kashmir also drew tens of thousands...it looks like the Indian government's pathetic attempt at illegally selling off Kashmiri land has sparked some of the biggest pro-azadi protests since the early 1990s.
Yes let's come to the thread.
Ok so 100,000 marched. so what?
Marching without smart political leadership is just marching. They can march like this for the next 100 years and still be in the same situation.
The problems with Kashmiris is the utter lack of smart leadership. Mear Waiz or other maulvi types are simply too immature to handle this situation. You can read up the Kashmiri history from Gulab singh time until today. They have been a large boat with broken sails. Minor waves and little wind creates huge trouble for the poor guys.
National conference to Muslim conference all have taken Kashmiris for the ride. After 1947 Pakistan was supposed to be their savior. Unfortunately Pakistanis relied on Jihaids and now Jihadis have taken on Pakistan itself.
For Kashmiris, it is not the time of marches, it is the time of mourning. Mourning for the loss of our their self respect, mourning for the loss of their secular outlook, and above all mourning for the loss of their non-Muslim minorities.
According to the Kashmiri media, between 50-100,000 protesters marched on Lal Chowk in Srinagar, and raised Pakistani flags on the clock tower (where occupation forced traditionally raise the Indian flag on Indian national holidays). Protests in smaller cities across Kashmir also drew tens of thousands...it looks like the Indian government's pathetic attempt at illegally selling off Kashmiri land has sparked some of the biggest pro-azadi protests since the early 1990s.
There you go again ........ illegal sale ...... that was not to be any sale to any non state entity .... passions are being aroused on religious grounds. This is going to be counter productive and no one better then people of pakistan understand this better. It is pathetic that some elements are using religion to further their cause.
Look at how Geelani sahab is talking about elections ......
" Reiterating his appeal for complete boycott of coming assembly polls, Geelani termed it the poll boycott as worship. He said, “It is a worship, like recitation of Kalima, offering of prayer, paying Zakat, performing of Hajj, because polls only throw up people like MLAs and ministers who promote obscenity, sexploitation, corruption, sale of liquor and other vices and evils. They also work to weaken the ongoing freedom movement to perpetuate Indian military occupation in the state.”
Does it not sound very Taliban like ...... arouse religious sentiments to meet your objective.
corruption begets corruption. those who are occuping and looting other peoples' lands today, will get what they deserve sooner than later.
Indians are corrupt ....... but what begets corruption in Pakistan. Last year on these forums everyone was talking about Mr 10% and NS as corrupt and Mushy as saviour. Now the tables have turned both these are the saviour and Mushy is the corrupt on who sold of people to US.
As for deserving for what they do ...... Pakistan lost East pakistan , you have militants roaming around Peshawar and the Balochs will not sit quitely. So you have enough on you plate to worry about ....... but then everyone has to realize both India and Pakistan has the same problem and same enemy. And it is definetly not each other ....... think about it.
According to the Kashmiri media, between 50-100,000 protesters marched on Lal Chowk in Srinagar, and raised Pakistani flags on the clock tower (where occupation forced traditionally raise the Indian flag on Indian national holidays). Protests in smaller cities across Kashmir also drew tens of thousands...it looks like the Indian government's pathetic attempt at illegally selling off Kashmiri land has sparked some of the biggest pro-azadi protests since the early 1990s.
You belon to that cateory who spread hate between religions. All they were doing is to allocate land to a reliious organization so the ppl visiting shrine wont face difficluties.
Goverment shld stop selling their land to muslims in other parts of the state for building mosque and this is what i conclude from this whole issue.
The problems with Kashmiris is the utter lack of smart leadership. Mear Waiz or other maulvi types are simply too immature to handle this situation.
The problem isn't a lack of smart leadership...it's the lack of a unified leadership. There are plenty of capable political leaders, but the movement has become too factionalized over the years. As much as I'm against this land sale, I'm glad to see that it has brought together the separatist leadership (and even the pro-India parties) like never before...perhaps this is the beginning of a renewed, unified effort to finally expel India from Kashmir.
As for the Mirwaiz, if you actually bother reading his statements and listening to his speeches, I think you'll find he's one of the most modern, forward-thinking, secular leaders in South Asia today...and no, the irony of that statement isn't lost on me.
There you go again ........ illegal sale ...... that was not to be any sale to any non state entity .... passions are being aroused on religious grounds. This is going to be counter productive and no one better then people of pakistan understand this better. It is pathetic that some elements are using religion to further their cause.
The board is not Kashmiri. The sale of our land to non-Kashmiris is illegal. Period. Even the Abdullahs and the other pro-India puppets are dead against it.
You belon to that cateory who spread hate between religions.
I might be more insulted if this wasn't coming from the very same prophet of religious tolerance who tells Muslims to "go blow themselves up."
Goverment shld stop selling their land to muslims in other parts of the state for building mosque and this is what i conclude from this whole issue.
If the land is being sold to non-Kashmiri Muslim organizations, then yes, the government should stop that too. If you think we want Indian Muslims buying up our land and settling in Kashmir, then you're completely mistaken.
The problem isn't a lack of smart leadership...it's the lack of a unified leadership. There are plenty of capable political leaders, but the movement has become too factionalized over the years. As much as I'm against this land sale, I'm glad to see that it has brought together the separatist leadership (and even the pro-India parties) like never before...perhaps this is the beginning of a renewed, unified effort to finally expel India from Kashmir.
As for the Mirwaiz, if you actually bother reading his statements and listening to his speeches, I think you'll find he's one of the most modern, forward-thinking, secular leaders in South Asia today...and no, the irony of that statement isn't lost on me.
The board is not Kashmiri. The sale of our land to non-Kashmiris is illegal. Period. Even the Abdullahs and the other pro-India puppets are dead against it.
I might be more insulted if this wasn't coming from the very same prophet of religious tolerance who tells Muslims to "go blow themselves up."
If the land is being sold to non-Kashmiri Muslim organizations, then yes, the government should stop that too. If you think we want Indian Muslims buying up our land and settling in Kashmir, then you're completely mistaken.
Dude that land is not yours keep that in mind. My grandparents were from lahore,my dad was born there but I dont claim that land as mine so kindly you dont poke ur long nose in our internal affairs.