So you don’t know? You don’t know why were here and what put us here and who created the universe? You don’t think we are accountable for our actions and that we will be judged upon our beliefs and what we did on this earth?
So you don't know? You don't know why were here and what put us here and who created the universe? You don't think we are accountable for our actions and that we will be judged upon our beliefs and what we did on this earth?
are you surprised or disappointed?
are you surprised or disappointed?
Just curious...are you by any chance an existentialist?
are you surprised or disappointed?
Oh no im not surprised at all because most agnostics and athiests are confused people anyway because they don't want to believe that they have to one day answer to a God one day and that they are being watched and that they have to take account for all their actions in this world!
Oh no im not surprised at all because most agnostics and athiests are confused people anyway because they don't want to believe that they have to one day answer to a God one day and that they are being watched and that they have to take account for all their actions in this world!
its not that they dont want to believe. its just that they DONT believe there is a God. you are assuming that they know there is a God but deny it. that is not the case.
Re: (Split from Recently disc ...) Who am I? What am I doing here?
^ Agnostic = Someone who says it is not possible to be sure if there is a God or not.
Atheist = Someone who says there is No God.
Believer = Someone who says there Is God.
(of a religion)
AOA
I had a chance to discuss this issue with aithiest and was very intersting discussion, in New Jersy, USA at one of the university.
So it goes like this: 4 total in the class, one muslim(male), one catholic christian(male), one jew (lady) and one athiest (male).
Non-aithiest: do u carry car insurance?
Aithiest: yes, I do.
Non-aithiest: Why?
Aithiest: law requires me, what if i get into an accident.
Non-aithiest: is it cheap?
Aithiest: No it is not?
Non-aithiest: are u a good driver or bad?
Aithiest: I beleive, I am good.
Non-aithiest: what is the probability of getting into an accident?
Aithiest: very low but u never one for sure.
Non-aithiest: any possiblity/probability of driving for whole life with out ever getting into accident and needing this insurance/
Aithiest: Yes.
Non-aithiest: So u r saying that u may or may not get into an accident and u may or may not need ever to use this insurance?
Aithiest: yes, both are probable.
Non-aithiest: if u get into accident and u have insurance, would u feel happy and safe?
Aithiest: yes.
Non-aithiest: if u get into an accident and u do not have insurance, then?
Aithiest: I am in trouble.
Non-aithiest: if u never get into an accident, would u feel that u wasted all ur money buying insurance which u never needed?
Aithiest:I would, but at least it gives me satisfaction that everything is safe while i drive.
Non-aithiest: does that mean that u r safe in both cases if u have accident or not when u carry insurance and ur safe in one case if u have no accident when u carry no insurance ( u r unsafe if u get into an accident when u have no insurance) .
Aithiest: Yes. U are right.
Now discussion angle changes
Non-aithiest: do u have proof that there is no God?
Aithiest: No.
Non-aithiest: do u have proof that there is a God?
Aithiest: No?
Non-aithiest: both are probable?
Aithiest:amm........ Yes, i guess.
Non-aithiest: Now two possibilities:
1) no God 2) God
Aithiest: yes.
Non-aithiest: do u see that if u believe in one u r safe in both cases, whether there is God or there is no God and if u do not beleive in one u r safe only if there is no God but u may not be safe then if there is God
Aithiest: silence.......
Non-aithiest: SUrprising u r spending money made after hardwork on insurance to cover ur self against an accident which my or may not occur but u are not applying same in beleiving a God and are not securing ur self. Isn't a double standard.
Aithiest: silence.
Non-aithiest: U r free to beleive and continue on with ur life the way u like as u r free and have the right to choose.
Non-aithiest: Just wanted to show u another angle.
Let us go back to the study.
No hard feeling and sorry for mistakes as I am both " zero and khan"
Re: (Split from Recently disc ...) Who am I? What am I doing here?
Agnostics are the honest people, they tell you honestly that they are not sure.
Believing, however, is the smart thing to do, because you never know.
Re: (Split from Recently disc ...) Who am I? What am I doing here?
^^Peace zerokhan
The story is okay except I wonder why the atheist did not say one obvious fact in the discussion.
To take out insurance is the law without it one would be arrested, however, there is no law against not believing in God. No human law that is. Had insurance been made an option then perhaps not everyone would take out insurance.
AOA
....................... Non-aithiest: do u have proof that there is no God? Aithiest: No.
Non-aithiest: do u have proof that there is a God? Aithiest: No?
...................
Non-aithiest: U r free to beleive and continue on with ur life the way u like as u r free and have the right to choose.
Non-aithiest: Just wanted to show u another angle.
Let us go back to the study.
No hard feeling and sorry for mistakes as I am both " zero and khan"
Peace to you.
A minor correction.
An atheist would have answered Yes to that question since he is sure.
Agnostic would have answered No since he is unsure.
The problem with the example is that one is never sure about the accident to ever occur from the beginning....and still not sure at the end.:)
That person is not a believer in the end. He is just wiser and smarter to keep both options. Remember, the believer is sure about God being present and is sure about life after and all other religious matters.
I dont think you have ever had this discussion. the whole thing looks staged. look at all the questions. they let you know at the very begining where the talk will end.look at all the characters that have been brought up from all the major religions. its something likethis story.. cliched.
Let me ask you a question if i may what do you believe in?
AOA
It was an open discussion and continued on different topics for 4 months ( semester).
One of the Br. Said:
“The story is okay except I wonder why the atheist did not say one obvious fact in the discussion. To take out insurance is the law without it one would be arrested, however, there is no law against not believing in God. No human law that is. Had insurance been made an option then perhaps not everyone would take out insurance.”
Whatever way one answer question is his / her right and is called freedom and his/her right to choose. I just wanted to introduce him to a different version of life NOT COMPELL HIM TO JOIN ME but just tp know as much as he wants me to know and let him know as much as i can show him. Therefore did not try to debate.
Other Br. said
"A minor correction.
An atheist would have answered Yes to that question since he is sure.
Agnostic would have answered No since he is unsure
The problem with the example is that one is never sure about the accident to ever occur from the beginning…and still not sure at the end
That person is not a believer in the end. He is just wiser and smarter to keep both options. Remember, the believer is sure about God being present and is sure about life after and all other religious matters."
Bro: U want one to change instanteneusly and get rid of his life in no time. Bro key to permanent decision is patience whether it is wise or unwise but at least fully thought our decision and one will try to stand beside it. Most importantly my experience shows that evena longest jurney begins wiht a single step or waves ina pond begins with a drop of a single stone. I just wanted to cause this single step/stone in his mind/life not a compell him to join me but choose whehter he wants to continue or like to change. I also said he has freedom to choose Islam, Judaism, Christianity, hinduism or any other as long he gets satisfied after study and investigation.
Finally one Bro said:
“I dont think you have ever had this discussion. the whole thing looks staged. look at all the questions. they let you know at the very begining where the talk will end.look at all the characters that have been brought up from all the major religions. its something likethis story.[/SIZE] cliched.”
I do not know and do not want to compell u to beleive. B4 I put something out I must have clear satisfaction in and out that I am not cheating my self and the one I beleive in and then the audience, so if i am lying then I am cheating my self and the one i beleive and it is the best time then for me to start beleiving in no one and join him instead. You can off course say this and this is ur freedom. But ehen i see it I can simply say this " my logic might be wrong, i might be ignorant but i am ready and open to learn but never would i like to cheat". Just to clarify it further it happend William patterson university, New jersy. Develop courage and vision not to call some thing a lie coz u have read or heard something similar and found it lie but investigate it thru logic or inquire. So bro it is the truth, not heard not seen from a distance but one that i participated in.
Sorry for hard feeling and mistakes as i am both “zero and khan”.
AOA
It was an open discussion and continued on different topics for 4 months ( semester).
One of the Br. Said:
[quote=psyah] "The story is okay except I wonder why the atheist did not say one obvious fact in the discussion. To take out insurance is the law without it one would be arrested, however, there is no law against not believing in God. No human law that is. Had insurance been made an option then perhaps not everyone would take out insurance."
Whatever way one answer question is his / her right and is called freedom and his/her right to choose. I just wanted to introduce him to a different version of life NOT COMPELL HIM TO JOIN ME but just tp know as much as he wants me to know and let him know as much as i can show him. Therefore did not try to debate.
...
Sorry for hard feeling and mistakes as i am both "zero and khan".
[/quote]
Peace zerokhan
Agreed ... I was just saying that if the car insurance analogy is used in future don't be surprised if someone says that "taking out insurance is law to believe in God is not". Also, also remember that some people like some very staunch atheists who I have had discussions with have argued against acting on precaution as wasted effort. They would rather exploit the world and possibly be wrong than let the world take everything from them and possibly be right.
Of course we need to discuss further with some people but in honesty it comes down to truthfulness. If a person is pure logical then there is every chance they are agnostic and with some effort on the Qur'an will have to become Muslim, but some people know about logic and only use it when it is in their atheistic interests to do so.
Good work zerokhan bhai
AOA
...........................
Other Br. said
"A minor correction. An atheist would have answered Yes to that question since he is sure. Agnostic would have answered No since he is unsure
The problem with the example is that one is never sure about the accident to ever occur from the beginning....and still not sure at the end
That person is not a believer in the end. He is just wiser and smarter to keep both options. Remember, the believer is sure about God being present and is sure about life after and all other religious matters."
Bro: U want one to change instanteneusly and get rid of his life in no time. Bro key to permanent decision is patience whether it is wise or unwise but at least fully thought our decision and one will try to stand beside it. Most importantly my experience shows that evena longest jurney begins wiht a single step or waves ina pond begins with a drop of a single stone. I just wanted to cause this single step/stone in his mind/life not a compell him to join me but choose whehter he wants to continue or like to change. I also said he has freedom to choose Islam, Judaism, Christianity, hinduism or any other as long he gets satisfied after study and investigation.
..........................
Sorry for hard feeling and mistakes as i am both "zero and khan".
I stated the observation that the person did not change in his belief or rather his non-belief or doubt. The person just became smart and bet on both possibilities. However, your answer is wishful and nothing wrong being wishful.:)
AOA
I would say that my experience shows that every one would like to be safe and lead a happy and rewarding life. It is just a matter of continuation of what he is being given most of the time by his mother, father , teacher and society. Thats why some time u just need to cause him to deviate from what he has being doing and just to see the other side even for a single moment.
Bro said : Smartness
Life stands on two things my bro, first WISH and 2nd Hope and jurney from wish to hope is called a struggle. Now if one is smart and wants to keep both option open is Okay with any religion. As today he is keeping both options open and it is 50% better than one being closed. If one is provided with good and thorough info or one is himself good and investigating change will then for sure come. So i would like peple to have this smartness.
Bro said : It is not a law
God never put it as a law but for those who are wise in all the religions. It is not the question of being law to have insurance but wisdom. Lets take that its optional to have insurance. If u carry one u r safe if not then if get into accident then u will have to pay for all the damage/life (or may be lives) or stay in the jail. None of the options is a releif and thus wiser would still carry insurance. Finally just use that analogy to just show him a different side.
Every one is free to choose.
Sorry for hard feelings and mistakes as i am both " zero and khan"
Let me ask you a question if i may what do you believe in?
I believe if there is a God, he wont need these idiotic stories to support his presence.
I believe if there is a God, he wont need these idiotic stories to support his presence.
I believe that there is God and He needs nothing not a single iota to support His Presence - for He is Self-Subsisting, The Ever Living
Re: (Split from Recently disc ...) Who am I? What am I doing here?
I believe whatever doesnt kill you makes you....stranger. :)
I believe whatever doesnt kill you makes you....stranger. :)
Jaanaan are you a deist, athiest or agnostic? or just confused?Why are we created? who created us and the universe and why?What is the purpose of life from your persepective?