Spinoff from Interfaith Dialogue - Salvation and the nature of Sin

[The_Old_Man]

Re: Spinoff from Interfaith Dialogue - Salvation and the nature of Sin

@ravage

Do you therefore believe that we are only born with the possibility of sin, or are we born as sinners already? In order words, upto the point where a person commits his first sin, is he infact sinless, and does he have absolutely no consequence in his afterlife of Adam’s sin?

Everyone is infected. All will test HIV+ but do not have full blown Aids. Makes ALL being sick, some will only show the symptoms/effects later. All are born sinners with a sinful nature. None is born sinless because all have the sin virus in their souls.

Can you also tell us the beliefs on this specific question of various prominent groups within Christianity, the belief that until you commit your first sin you are by nature pure?

As far as I know ALL major denominations/churches teach that man is not born sinless but tainted with Adam’s sin.

So what is the consequence of Jesus’s death?

That those that are reborn disciples’ sins will not be held against them.

Is the possibility of sin removed from those who believe in Jesus?

No, all remain with a sinful nature and do sin.

Or are they forgiven the consequences of their sins?

Their sins will not be held them at Judgement Day.

In the latter case you are taking away personal responsibility and encouraging an attitude of laxity towards sin.

Exactly why the writer of Hebrew wrote:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgement and of a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has threated as an unholy thing of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Islamic view points, which though also stress that man also has the potential for good, a notion that Christianity always seems to disregard.

Not really. As the Apostle Paul wrote:

So I find this law at work: When I wnat to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am!

Christianity does allow for good as well as bad in a person. There is a continous struggle between the two.

What I meant was that the idea that atonement for Adam’s original sin must come through Jesus’s blood was first produced in scripture by Paul (he may have been taught that by Jesus) and the need for atonement by blood for Adam’s sin does not occur anywhere before that.

Not correct. When Jesus gave the instruction on the Holy Communion, he said: And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.” - Luk.13

The first prophecy w.r.t. the coming of a Messiah is found in Gen.3v15 when God was admonishing Adam and Eve after their sinning.

The Apostle Peter wrote: Fot Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built…For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. - 1Pet.3v18-4v6

So in your view they will not be in Limbo?

No, see above quote. Various other verses in the Bible show that ALL will be judged w.r.t. Jesus sacrifice. Jesus himself said: Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad - John.8v56, indicating that the prophets of the Old Testament ALL knew about the Messiah that was to come and save the world.

The Apostle Peter also wrote: Converning the salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow - 1 Pet.1v10-11.

Why will they be condemned? They still believe in Jesus?

But they do the works of Satan. Faith should be attested by works.

But isnt a church’s view just a collection of people like you deciding what God’s view probably is (just as you are guaging God’s view yourself)

Correct, and that is why I am open for correction as long as it comes from the Holy Spirit and conforms to what I knows are written in the Bible.