speaking of a beard...

Re: speaking of a beard…

:salam:

Akhi

This verse is best understood given the fact that 1400 years ago when Islam was apreading the Jews of Madinah and the Christians of Northern Arabia were scheming to thwart and destroy Islam. This is not a general verse that blankets every Jew and Christian that has existed in time. Today there are some religions or nations that may hate muslims even more than certain Jews or Christians but it is not mentioned in Quran. The essence of the verse when it was revealed was to forewarn the muslim at that time who there enemies were. It may even be true today but it is not a stereotype as many people imply when they state this verse. I hope you agree with me.

Re: speaking of a beard...


To say that forever Jews hate Muslims is racist, inciteful and hateful. So there can be only 2 possibilities:

  1. It was meant for the time it was revealed and anyone who carries that to today is misinterpreting it. *]The Quran is wrong. I wonder which one it is?

Re: speaking of a beard…

Add to that that one is allowed to marry a Jew. Doesn’t it sound strange that your are allowed to even marry someone from those who hate you most :confused:

Re: speaking of a beard…

Peace NeSCio

In order to be able to marry their women Muslim men will need to be known in the Jewish communities and respected by their men. I think that inter-Jewish-Muslim marriage is a wonderful way to rid these hateful sentiments between to two peoples. Don’t you?

Re: speaking of a beard...

Peace brother armughal

You will find inshaAllah that Qur'an never makes sweeping statements. When it refers to the Jews it will make exceptions for some of them not being like the others.

Re: speaking of a beard...

Peace NeScio

Islam never puts it's dictates all into one basket. The whole point of growing the beard in a certain way is not to be distinct from a given group. It was only one of the reasons.

So when that element of distinction disappears ??? ... well that is a non-starter of a question. It was you who said ... so-and-so has a beard like Muslims ... you didn't say that Muslims keep their beard like Sean Connery et al, because that would be ridiculous. The beard is known as a Muslim beard and people who keep it are copying us. We own the identity of it not them they will always be associated to us not us to them. The Muslims are the originators of it ... Therefore your argument fails here!

As for cutting the nails and imitation of the genders. That again is a non-starter. Cutting the nails is part of human fitra it is our nature like brushing out teeth, but the cutting of the nails is hygene also. It is also mandated to us. Islam tends to restrict our resemblance with women from a holistic perspective, in mannerisms and dress code, colours and jewelry. You have appointed your own understanding of resemblance on to an inappropriate area which is causing you to huff.

I hope this is clear now?

Re: speaking of a beard...

I hate to burst people's bubble, but Sean Connery and others are not copying Muslims in trimming their facial hair. Outside of Muslim cultures, it is not known as a Muslim beard. It's really not such an unusual configuration of facial hair, there is nothing ingenious or Islamically unique about trimming the moustache. Perhaps in the days of Muhammed it was unique to Muslims and becuase of their limited knowledge of the rest of the world they felt like they "invented' this simplistic fashion of facial hair. To say Muslims own that identity is simply ridiculous. I hope that is clear now.

Re: speaking of a beard…

actually, when someone asks me about a beard without moustache, there is also another ‘population’ that comes to my mind, that typically has that configuration. The leprechauns which is used in Irish mythology.

http://www.wpclipart.com/holiday/stPats/leprechaun/Leprechaun_06.png

and I said so-and-so has a beard like Muslims without any specific preference in words, if you want I might as well say Muslims have a beard like leprechauns…

wait a second, first you say the difference between men and women is made from a holistic view, and then you give quite specific examples of colours and jewelry? If it indeed is a from a holistic view then e.g. a small earstud for males should be allowed if the rest of the appearence is manly: after all from a holistic view that person will still be seen as male???

Re: speaking of a beard...

it was unique to jews also

In those days, rest of the world also had a limited knowledge about rest of the world.

Chinease and Italian still fight about who invented Noodles

Re: speaking of a beard…

sorry Quran does not agree with you
According to quran one is allowed to marry with ahley kitab and not with who do shirk
and according to quran jew do shirk
so you are wrong here meray bahi

Re: speaking of a beard...

I can't believe I'm hearing this, Islam is FULLY tied with Worldy Affairs.

Islam is in essence the PROPER WAY TO LIVE IN THE WORLD. Period.

Re: speaking of a beard...

There you go again....

For God's sake do not say Quran does not agree with you. Just say I do not agree with you and refrain from misguiding people...

Just one question why Jazya was accepted from jews and christians during the period of Holy Prophet and Khulfa e Rashideen if they are not Ahle Kitaab according to your definition of Ahle Kitaab as they do shirk. Jazya is only acceptable from Ahle Kitaab as far as Quran is concerned.....

I think you are doing shirk by judging people what they are, and thus doing Allah's task......

Re: speaking of a beard…

i think the post above this one says it all.

Who are you to judge whether Qur’an agrees or disagrees with someone? :konfused:

and if Jews are seen as non-ahley-kitaab…who are ahley-kitaab then? Only muslims and christians? or are the latter also doing shirk?

Re: speaking of a beard…

In a previous thread I have already discussed this with him and for Meherealone christians are bigger shirk doers because of trinity…

Although he does not have any answer for this that why Holy Prophet and his companions considered jews and christians Ahle Kitaab…

Re: speaking of a beard…

Quran says not me just open the quran and read both arabic and translation if you don’t understand arabic

islam forbade us to marry mushrik

sura al baqra chapter 2 verse number 221
002.221
YUSUFALI: Do not marry unbelieving women , until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

PICKTHAL: Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.

SHAKIR:** And do not marry the idolatresses** until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.

and we know mushrik is the one who worship other then Allah
and christen and jews are mushrik by this definition

sura al towba chapter 9 verse 31

009.031

YUSUFALI: They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

PICKTHAL: They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!

SHAKIR: They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one Allah only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

then how Allahs allows to marry in one ayat and forbade in other , it seems contradiction
but if we see on another place

sura Al imran ayat number 110
003.110
YUSUFALI: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. **Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers. **
SHAKIR: You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; **of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.
**
from this Allah gave shadat that among jews and chirstens there will be some people who believe only in Allah and will not believe jesus as son of God
and some how “dawat of Islam” wouldn’t have reached them in true sense so they havn’t converted to islam as well

so only muslim man can marry only that chirsten or jew girl , who believe in oneness of Allah , who believe that jesus was not sun of God and was prophet of God
so we can’t marry any julie , marry etc etc

if they believe in oneness of Allah and believe that Jesus was prophet of Allah not son of Allah then you can marry her otherwise not

i don’t take jews as non ahley kitaab but as people transformed from ahley kitab to mushrik as stated by quran
when ever in Quran Allah wants to talk about specially jews and christens he refer them with name jew and christens

like in

009.030 وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ عُزَيْرٌ ابْنُ اللَّهِ وَقَالَتِ النَّصَارَى الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُمْ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِئُونَ قَوْلَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللَّهُ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ
009.030 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

and many time on other places in quran

and now if you say that only jews and christens are ahley kitab
you surely deny the verse of quran

013.038 وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُمْ أَزْوَاجًا وَذُرِّيَّةً وَمَا كَانَ لِرَسُولٍ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ بِآيَةٍ إِلا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ لِكُلِّ أَجَلٍ كِتَابٌ
013.038 We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed).

Al-Qur’an, 013.038 (Ar-Rad [The Thunder])

i hope you understand

second all this is not stated by me , these are the verses of Quran which says marry ahley kitab and do not marry mushrik and jews and christens worship other then Allah and mushrik
just go and read quran

Re: speaking of a beard...

bahi meray , it is quran who says do not marry mushrik not me
go and read quran

Re: speaking of a beard...

and who told you that they considered are the only ones who are given books

or they deny like you the verse

013.038 We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed)

or they don't know like you that jews and christens are mushrik even when Quran says them mushrik

003.110 كُنْتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلَوْ آمَنَ أَهْلُ الْكِتَابِ لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَهُمْ مِنْهُمُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَأَكْثَرُهُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ
003.110 Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

Al-Qur'an, 003.110 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])

don't they understand the meaning of fasiq/mushirk like you

Re: speaking of a beard...

^ I guess you realize you are in the small minority with this view that Muslims can't marry women of the book? But please tell us, how do Jews commit shirk? Who are they worshipping outside of God?

Re: speaking of a beard...

[quote="meherealone, post:13, topic:170517"]

and who told you that they considered are the only ones who are given books or they deny like you the verse 013.038 We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed) or they don't know like you that jews and christens are mushrik even when Quran says them mushrik 003.110 ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ????????? ??????????? ?????????????? ???????????? ???? ??????????? ????????????? ????????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ????????????? 003.110 Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what Just answer my specific question.... Why did our holy prophet charge jazya and accorded the status of ahlekitaab to normal jews and christains who were doing shirk as you claim ????

Re: speaking of a beard...

Let Conclude :

" Beard is the Sunnah of the Prophet and he himself told the sahaba to grow it"
The debate of wheher it was arab tradition of persian to have beard is immaterial. Its like..once i met this guy who was so naive that he said that doing Hajj is also arab tradition and an Islamic duty. He was trying to prove that kuffars swarmed around kabbah before Islam and we follow their tradition( Naozbillah).