this is a good article why southasian mulims dont integrate well in uk.
When the British ruled India, Muslims isolated themselves by refusing to learn English and accept modern education, thus allowing Hindus a virtual monopoly in government jobs and commerce. After partition, Indian Muslims fell into the same trap, refusing to send their children to Hindi schools. And now in Britain, despite the fact that they have chosen to settle here, Pakistanis are unable or unwilling to take the opportunities available to them and their children.
The key to social change is gender equality. Britons are appalled at the way Muslim men of Pakistani descent generally treat their wives and daughters. Cases of forced marriages regularly make the headlines; and voluminous veils and hijab are an oddity as well as the targets of jibes. The inability of workers to socialize with their colleagues after work adds to the reputation of Pakistani Muslims as sullen, unfriendly people
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becasue of dancing and alcohol **some* avoid parties
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lolz... just because some individuals do not go to parties, doesn't mean they are "sullen" and "unfriendly" every single second of their lives. By the same token, everyone who goes to parties is not necessarily a "friendly" person either - s/he can be arrogant and stuck-up as well. What i mean is just, simply, that - everyone's so unique. How is it rationally possible to paint everyone with the same brush. i don't attend parties a lot - does that make me sullen and unfriendly. In my humblest opinion - no!
Anyways, i think that your own reply hit the nail on the head: "some" avoid parties. Not ALL southasian Muslims in the UK are similar, just as i am certain not all Hindus residing in the UK consistently talk/behave/act in the same manner 100% of the time.
lolz... just because some individuals do not go to parties, doesn't mean they are "sullen" and "unfriendly" every single second of their lives. By the same token, everyone who goes to parties is not necessarily a "friendly" person either - s/he can be arrogant and stuck-up as well. What i mean is just, simply, that - everyone's so unique. How is it rationally possible to paint everyone with the same brush. i don't attend parties a lot - does that make me sullen and unfriendly. In my humblest opinion - no!
Anyways, i think that your own reply hit the nail on the head: "some" avoid parties. Not ALL southasian Muslims in the UK are similar, just as i am certain not all Hindus residing in the UK consistently talk/behave/act in the same manner 100% of the time.
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My father would strongly agree with your assertions. Just the other day he was comparing us with our Hindu counterparts; they seem to fare much better as they integrate into foreign societies with greater ease. I think they are more open to change and adjustments, and are perhaps more competitive?
My guess is that those muslims in the UK perceive everything as haraam and choose not to participate in anything, whereas Hindus generally are more open minded and tend to integrate better into western society. This article is no different then the one that was published over a year ago in another Uk paper comparing Indians vs. Pakistanis.
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My guess is that those muslims in the UK perceive everything as haraam and choose not to participate in anything, whereas Hindus generally are more open minded and tend to integrate better into western society. This article is no different then the one that was published over a year ago in another Uk paper comparing Indians vs. Pakistanis.
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This is not a matter of Indians vs. Pakistanis at all. A fair percentage of Indians in England are muslim, especially Gujratis. I would tend to say that they are even more "religious" than Pakistanis, especially with there participation in the T. Jamaat. So the lack of integration and open mindedness is not a regional/nationalistic issue but is in fact a religious issue.
I know it is not a nationalistic issue. I probably should have written it more clear. If I could find the article, it drew the same comaparison. Indians (majority hindu) vs. Pakistani (majority muslim). It focused on hindu's with Indian origin living in the UK vs. muslims with Pakistani origin.
This is not a matter of Indians vs. Pakistanis at all. A fair percentage of Indians in England are muslim, especially Gujratis. I would tend to say that they are even more "religious" than Pakistanis, especially with there participation in the T. Jamaat. So the lack of integration and open mindedness is not a regional/nationalistic issue but is in fact a religious issue.
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Can u elaborate on the religion being a hindrance to integration? I believe that you can be religious still you integrate.. I have also seen that muslims from India do assimilate into the societies easily than the ones from Pakistan..Also many south indian exports are highly religious but still they do integrate into these societies
I feel its more a issue of education..while the immigrants from India were largely educated and qualified ( the famous brain drain) the ones from across the border where not so.
Interesting; but some of the most successful groups in the Muslim community are from the African/Asian group who arrived in the 70's. Perhaps they know how to integrate better having already experienced being a minority?
I would have said it has something to do with community cohesion, something which those of Pakistani origin seem to lack in comparison to groups like Gujratis ,but, that is also not true as Bengalis tend to work together better as a community yet among ethnic groups performance economically they are near the bottom of the list in the UK.
Another possible fcator is that a significant number of the original migrants came as labourers, they were hit hard in the 80's and 90's a by a loss of jobs as factories closed down and those that did get a good education tended to migrate to the South because of better job prospects.
Integration problem is not only the fault of the muslims, it's two sided.
What I've seen in parts of Europe is, that often the Europeans have a general opininon about muslims and treat them according to that, instead of trying to understand them.
Maybe muslims/foreigners should treat non-muslims according to their own custom, like I used to live in a (Dutch) village, and we have this tradition, that if it's Eid, or just a happy occassion, and we make extra delicious Paki snacks, and give to our neighbours too. But when I did that in that village, they thought I wanted something from them!
This is just a small example, doesn't have much to do with religion, but it's just an idea of how sometimes Europeans can also act stupid. It's always two-sided. They might find it unfriendly if a colleague won't join them in a party to dance and drink alcohol, but same way some foreigners might find Europeans cold and unfriendly, because it's a tradition here to put old people in special homes for elders, instead of taking care of them themselves.
Can u elaborate on the religion being a hindrance to integration? I believe that you can be religious still you integrate.. I have also seen that muslims from India do assimilate into the societies easily than the ones from Pakistan..Also many south indian exports are highly religious but still they do integrate into these societies
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Perhaps living with people of other relgions (India) allows one to integrate better than people in Pakistan, where it is predominatley 1 religion.
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Can u elaborate on the religion being a hindrance to integration? I believe that you can be religious still you integrate.. I have also seen that muslims from India do assimilate into the societies easily than the ones from Pakistan..Also many south indian exports are highly religious but still they do integrate into these societies
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Actually I agree with you. I don't think that religion causes any hinderance to integration. At least this is ceratainly ture where I was born and live (Canada). Although I suspect this may not be the case in the US or UK.
I think that cultural attitudes have a far stronger impact on integration than religion. Similarly, someone has mentioned Afro-Asian immigrants and noted that they preform well in western socities regardless of religion, espcially in business. I think if you look at the cultural history of the subcontinent hindus have traditionally controlled business and finance, even in pre-partition Pakistan and this is reflected in there business performance in modern western nations. Muslims have been held back by some segments of the regressive clergy who discourage itegration. The cultural history of Afro-Asians is similar as they tended to control the business markets in there respective African countires before tehy were forced to flee.