Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu

[diwana]

Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu

@X2

Good…The fact that is being missed is that the loss of cultural heritage is inevitable, because the culture of each generation is different and less connected to a far away land and language.

Cannot speak for anyone, but I can say I never denied from very beginning loss of cultural heritage including in not inevitable.

My question was to elucidate what are various reasons for it.

**More importantly, I am much more curious and (critical to) what I see is committing suicide or murder of the language long before it may die naturally.
**
(My strong question above)

@X2

They meant Asians as in people from the asian continent, usually in US that is more far east and not Asian in UK which refers to desis. There is no ‘fact’ that there are 'no third or fourth generations" from other countries yet.

I know what they meant. They clealr identified those Asians repeatedly in the article.

But they are the one who found this fact by not able to complete the generational survival curve for the Asians and only could do that for Mexicans and White Europeans. (Page 457 second para).

[quote=“X2, post:88, topic:303567”]

@diwana

2- Their criteria to define death of language based on preference to answer in English is also very loose criteria. (Page 454). The language does not die even if someone says he/she cannot communicate ‘very well’. First question.. It simply means it is weak, not dead.[/quoye]

agreed…weak, dying, not dead.
Their offsprings will be even weaker normally..and thus the point that with each generation

Agreed. I only wanted to make it clear the definition language death by them was incorrect.

Just because someone ‘prefers’ speaking English from home over the phone to a stranger does not mean his ability to speak (or even read or write) is lost.

Perhaps more information is needed what was discussed over the phone for X-number of minutes and what questions were asked.

@X2

Great point…and inability to read or write is a step towards the loss of language…

Absolutely.

@X2

I think they know how to sample better than you. I work in extremely data intensive, sample research based business. A good sample is very telling. your confidence level goes up with a larger population but a good sample gives you enough insights.

The study only gives insight. Not complete information and certainly the study needs to be done on larger populations of immigrants from all areas of country especially including a larger Hispanic population from Texas and other states where Hispanics reside. Texas has larger border adjacent to Mexico I think.

@X2

Because the focus was on the loss of language in 3rd and 4th generation. Typically if there is no 3rd or fourth generation, there are no ways t interview them.

Hence I said why bring them in the context of Asians. Just focus on those who DO have 3rd or 4th generation and drop them increase the sample size of Hispanics.

@X2

Does not matter, a good sample is good enough. These people do this for a living and are good at it.

It seems?…right then. I will not argue on what it ‘seems’ to you..

Sorry, they said ‘Cohort of Southern California’ but tried to imply as if it applies to a much larger Hispanic population.

Oho! I was being nice. They said themselves they wanted to show Huntington’s hypothesis wrong.

@X2

They may have different metrics, but there is no study that indicates that heritage culture and language is not lost with each generation. If there is a study that indicates it stays the same 100% in 3rd gen then I am all ears, but every study will show you a significant level of loss.

Yes. Already agreed. I never said it stays 100%.

@X2

You may ‘think’ that but it is not a fact so irrelevant. The gentleman leading the study has social research on many other topics. The fact that this research findings counter the huntington research is not a basis of this research. Huntington claimed that in areas which are very high in hispanic immigrant populations, english will become less used and spanish will become prevalent. In an extreme example that will happen….the larger group or an extremely large minority can have an impact, growth of Urdu in many Pakistani areas is one example. However where both studies actually align is that it is a group dynamics result over a period of time where a large group will impact a smaller group, or if there are 2 very large groups there will be an impact.

I have to read Huntington’s study someday. Need to know where did he come from.

I say that as the population of a particular origin grows, it may get to a “critical mass” to not need immigrants to make the culture or language survive.

@X2

Appreciate your effort to read, however when there is a lack of knowledge then objections come up which have less to do with the study but the reader’s lack of knowledge whether it is about use of sampling, or definition of asian.

I cleared both misconceptions above.

@X2

I would love to see stats on the Punjabi in Canada number you had been showing. Also if there are studies that show that 100% 3rd and 4th gen immigrants speak/read/write their heritage language.

About Punjabis in Canada, I will look it up. For other studies I agree there may not be any and I never claimed that.

@X2

…and from a previous post

Not sure about that being a fact, if the immigrants are smaller in numbers and marrying locals a lot then that can hold true. Larger groups which dont marry out may have different results. One example of this is Italian Americans in NYC where while food is still heavily influenced by old country, the language is not there and majority speak english.

Good idea for another thread.