Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu

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Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu

@diwana

I thanked you already and you said " sure, you are welcome".

I also said thank you for proving SOME of my positions correct.

I did not refute study you brought altogether. I agreed that immigrants efforts to keep their cultural heritage alive should not be discouraged.

Good…The fact that is being missed is that the loss of cultural heritage is inevitable, because the culture of each generation is different and less connected to a far away land and language.

@diwana

Now for a detail commnet on the study you quoted:

sure, lets go over it..

@diwana

1- They wasted resources on immigrants from countries who do not have third or fourth generation to begin with (Asians). They should have known better not to even bring them up knowing this fact that besides immigrants from some European countries and Hispanics, there are no third or fourth generations from other countries yet.

They meant Asians as in people from the asian continent, usually in US that is more far east and not Asian in UK which refers to desis. There is no ‘fact’ that there are 'no third or fourth generations" from other countries yet.

[quote=“diwana, post:42, topic:250698”]

2- Their criteria to define death of language based on preference to answer in English is also very loose criteria. (Page 454). The language does not die even if someone says he/she cannot communicate ‘very well’. First question.. It simply means it is weak, not dead.[/quoye]

agreed…weak, dying, not dead.
Their offsprings will be even weaker normally..and thus the point that with each generation

@diwana

3- On same page 454, second paragraph, they are correct that speaking the language lasts longer than reading and writing.

Great point…and inability to read or write is a step towards the loss of language…

@diwana

4- From people of 5 millions they show X numbers of Hispanics responded but the numbers cited in Table 1 is small and especially those who belong to generation 3.0 or greater.

I think they know how to sample better than you. I work in extremely data intensive, sample research based business. A good sample is very telling. your confidence level goes up with a larger population but a good sample gives you enough insights.

@diwana

5- There is a problem where they decided to merge the IIMMLA and CILS data when they had 78% of one group including those who have no 3rd generation and beyond with others who do. And yet, they separated these groups in the end when discussed the results and focised only on those who have 3rd and fourth generations.

Because the focus was on the loss of language in 3rd and 4th generation. Typically if there is no 3rd or fourth generation, there are no ways t interview them.

@diwana

Very interesting to read that they did not reveal why they had so low number of respondents from among millions of immigrant families.

Does not matter, a good sample is good enough. These people do this for a living and are good at it.

@diwana

6- Nowhere in this study they mentioned any caveat, any source of possible ambiguity or false conclusions.
It seems they tried to show their study was flawless by every means.

It seems?…right then. I will not argue on what it ‘seems’ to you..

@diwana

It is very difficult to do studies like that on immigrants and I have come across other studies perhaps one from Berkley? which used some better methods to target immigrant populations and their cultural heritage.

If I get the chance, will post.

They may have different metrics, but there is no study that indicates that heritage culture and language is not lost with each generation. If there is a study that indicates it stays the same 100% in 3rd gen then I am all ears, but every study will show you a significant level of loss.

@diwana

In the end:

I think they just wanted to refute Huntington study and results and while they may or may not be right in their conclusion, the method used was wrong.

I have not read Huntington study, but it seems, that study was another extreme.

You may ‘think’ that but it is not a fact so irrelevant. The gentleman leading the study has social research on many other topics. The fact that this research findings counter the huntington research is not a basis of this research. Huntington claimed that in areas which are very high in hispanic immigrant populations, english will become less used and spanish will become prevalent. In an extreme example that will happen….the larger group or an extremely large minority can have an impact, growth of Urdu in many Pakistani areas is one example. However where both studies actually align is that it is a group dynamics result over a period of time where a large group will impact a smaller group, or if there are 2 very large groups there will be an impact.

Appreciate your effort to read, however when there is a lack of knowledge then objections come up which have less to do with the study but the reader’s lack of knowledge whether it is about use of sampling, or definition of asian.

I would love to see stats on the Punjabi in Canada number you had been showing. Also if there are studies that show that 100% 3rd and 4th gen immigrants speak/read/write their heritage language.

…and from a previous post

@diwana

**It is the clothing, attire eating habit or selection of dietary item and foreign looks which disappear first… long before language goes.

Not sure about that being a fact, if the immigrants are smaller in numbers and marrying locals a lot then that can hold true. Larger groups which dont marry out may have different results. One example of this is Italian Americans in NYC where while food is still heavily influenced by old country, the language is not there and majority speak english.