Some ImporANNOUNCEMENT: Islamic Events In UK To Attend For All Sunnis

Would you stop respecting your father even if he does so many wrong things...no...he is still your father

If he is doing something against Islam then you have every right to tell him to correct his ways. Thats the thing - People follow other humans blindly. If people weren't so ignorant and used their brains when learning about Islam, then maybe these 'pirs' wouldn't get away with as much as some of them do.

Here is an interesting point.. How many 'pirs' are there in the Arab world? Sounds like totally a Pakistani/Indian concept to me.

I'm being Cyincal, I know, but Islam has been sent by Allah for all of mankind. Prophet Muhammed was the best example to all of us, but at the end of the day we pray to Allah and Allah alone. Allah has no partners. Even Prophet Muhammed is not as important as Allah. I don't agree with celebrating Eid Milad un Nabi.

My views

Yes you have every right to tell your father not to do things against Islam.But remember even he is not a Muslims at all, forget about being bad Muslim...... Its Wajib..obligatory not to stop respecting him..thats our Prophet's(peace be upon him and his family)......and BTW improve you knowledge about Islam...
Most Pirs and 14 Chains Of Tariqah come from Arab and they end on Hadrat Ali (Radi Allah an hu) and he wasn't from India....there is a big number of great Auliyas who are mostly from Iraq...Iran....Syria.....Present Russia ...and present Saudi Arabia....And great Pirs in India..Pakistan..never mind great like Khwaja Ajmari(that khawaj who converted 90 hundred thousands..90 Lakhs...hindu Rajputs to Islam just in one gathering, your Tableeghi Jamaat can't make 9 muslims in their whole life time) or any other Auliyas not very famous....they all got Faiz from Arab Pirs.
Firstly Muhammad bin Qasim took few Great Arab Pirs with him who started all this in India..today we are very proud Muslims in India and Pakistan...how we became Mulims...like my family...we were Hindu Rajputs..few generations back...but converted to Islam due to These Arab pirs..If you have got time go to Arab people's mosques...you will see %90 of their mosques have got connection with some sort of pir from some Arab country

[quote]
Originally posted by CoolDude:
***Would you stop respecting your father even if he does so many wrong things...no...he is still your father*

If he is doing something against Islam then you have every right to tell him to correct his ways. Thats the thing - People follow other humans blindly. If people weren't so ignorant and used their brains when learning about Islam, then maybe these 'pirs' wouldn't get away with as much as some of them do.

Here is an interesting point.. How many 'pirs' are there in the Arab world? Sounds like totally a Pakistani/Indian concept to me.

I'm being Cyincal, I know, but Islam has been sent by Allah for all of mankind. Prophet Muhammed was the best example to all of us, but at the end of the day we pray to Allah and Allah alone. Allah has no partners. Even Prophet Muhammed is not as important as Allah. I don't agree with celebrating Eid Milad un Nabi.

My views**
[/quote]

When I speak to Arabs (mostly Saudis & Egyptians) about Pirs, they don't know what i'm talking about. They understand Ulema, Scholars, Imams etc but they don't know what a Pir is. I explained once that in Pakistan, some people see their Pir as a 'gateway' to Allah. They ask him for a baby boy or anything that else that they want. Believe me, this is an alien concept outside of Pakistan India. It bears a striking resemblance to the swamis that the Hindus have...

anyway, my thoughts.

Cooldude that’s cos “Pir” is a Farsi word. Ask the Arabs about “Shaykh ul Tariqat” or “wali Allah” (pl. awliya) or “Sufi Shaykh” and they will know what you are on about. All these are synonyms for “Pir”.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by CoolDude:
**When I speak to Arabs (mostly Saudis & Egyptians) about Pirs, they don't know what i'm talking about. They understand Ulema, Scholars, Imams etc but they don't know what a Pir is. I explained once that in Pakistan, some people see their Pir as a 'gateway' to Allah. They ask him for a baby boy or anything that else that they want. Believe me, this is an alien concept outside of Pakistan India. It bears a striking resemblance to the swamis that the Hindus have...

anyway, my thoughts.**
[/quote]

I beg to disagree as I had seen results of a study in which people in different muslim countries were asked as to how many of them believed in their government, teachers, pir, and so on and Egyptians were the worst and surprisingly Pakistanis were not close to them. I will see if I can find it in my own archives and then I will let u know.

I think Arabs have similar problems as we do have in IndoPak but we don't find out about them as much as we get to hear what our people do. One good thing about them is that their base is very strong and they always refer back to Quran and Sunnah. Some of them distort it a bit but yet there is a standard benchmark.

When learned men teach others about Islam, Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet - then, subhanllah, that is good.

However, If they act (or people believe) that they have powers more so than the average man then that is wrong. I've spoken to people who belive that their 'Pir' from their village in Pakistan can heal them - or he can ask for things to Allah on their behalf. This is clearly wrong. I know of someone who went to a Pir to ask for a baby boy. A few months later she was pregnant and it was a baby boy. She was adamant that the pir had asked allah to grant her a baby boy. She didn't understand that it was Allah, and Allah alone who has this power.

Anyway, I'm deviating from the topic. Do carry on.

For cooldude.....read asif's explaination below exactly what I was going to say to you......and cry over your limited approach for not seeing things under your nose.....
""Cooldude that's cos "Pir" is a Farsi word. Ask the Arabs about "Shaykh ul Tariqat" or "wali Allah" (pl. awliya) or "Sufi Shaykh" and they will know what you are on about. All these are synonyms for "Pir".""
And any fake people could be found any where in any society...if anybody follows them then its their individual fault...whole nation or group shouldn't be blamed.....Pir or Shaikh can only be someone who is a practical picture of teachings of Quran and Sunnah.....thats our Sunni belief
you are answering without reading our answers.....a perfect example of Jahalat

[quote]
Originally posted by CoolDude:
**When learned men teach others about Islam, Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet - then, subhanllah, that is good.

However, If they act (or people believe) that they have powers more so than the average man then that is wrong. I've spoken to people who belive that their 'Pir' from their village in Pakistan can heal them - or he can ask for things to Allah on their behalf. This is clearly wrong. I know of someone who went to a Pir to ask for a baby boy. A few months later she was pregnant and it was a baby boy. She was adamant that the pir had asked allah to grant her a baby boy. She didn't understand that it was Allah, and Allah alone who has this power.

Anyway, I'm deviating from the topic. Do carry on.**
[/quote]

Cooldude

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I hope you will read my earlier reply and brother Wasir’s reply too. Yes, a true Shaykh/Pir will follow shar’iat strictly. Bit bro it seems like your knowledge of shar’iat is not totally correct; you see Allah Ta’ala is the Provider of everything but he gives through means [was’aail] and from the Qur’an, hadiths and Sunnah and Islamic history it is evident that ALLAH GIVES certain of his close servants [wali] the power that when THEY ask Allah for something on someone else’s behalf their wish is ALWAYS granted.

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Look in the Qur’an when Hazrat Jibra’eel said to Hazrat Maryam, “** I ** give you the good news of a son…”.

So the final and absolute giver IS Allah no doubt but He GIVES some of close servants and beloved ones the authority to do things too as I explained earlier.

It is a sahih hadith that Allah’s Habib sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said:

“Allah is the Giver and ** I ** am the distributor.”

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[This message has been edited by Asif (edited May 22, 2001).]

I believe that Allah granted the wishes of our beloved prophets. But what evidence is there that a normal human being can act on our behalf? Any quranic ayats would be helpful.

Jazakallah

There are people in this world who are more spiritually connected to Allah SWTA than others. In addition, the Qur'aan mentions that there are the Prophets of Allah SWTA and others who are not Prophets, but have been given guidance.

However, we must differeniate between being taught by the learned and asking from the learned.

The teaching process is like a human chain link reaction, similar to the narations of the A'Hadeeth. This is why the Holy Prophet was chosen by Allah SWTA to teach us the Qur'aan, the living example.

The most authentic A'Hadeeth do permit us to visit the graves of the deceased and pray for there salvation. However, the sad fact is that the majority who visit the Graves, tend to commit Shirk, by asking the dead soul for direct intervention or salvation. This also includes kissing the grave and prostating etc etc.

Allah SWTA has made it quite clear, if you require anything, ask Me and only Me. I am the Sustainer and Provider of all the Worlds.

The notion of showing extreme love and respect for the 'Pirs etc' is very prominent in India/Pakistan.

The Prophets of Allah SWTA carry more 'superiority', if I can use that word than any Pir. This is a fact, but how many people do you see showing so much love and respect for the Prophets.

How many actually even know the names of the Prophets mentioned in the Qur'aan.

So let's not go to the extremes in any issue.

Use the Qur'aan as the first point of call, followed by the authentic A'Hadeeth.

If in doubt, pray to Allah and your questions will be answered.

Cooldude:

Verily, on the Awliya [walis = true pirs = Friends of Allah] there is no fear nor do they grieve [Qur’an]

the full article can be read at http://www.sunnah.org/aqida/ghayb.htm#THE AWLIYA’S KASHF

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Asif: Few people would read a cut and paste that long. Just type the URL and if people want to read it they can go to the site.

You mentioned this ayat:

Verily, on the Awliya [walis = true pirs = Friends of Allah] there is no fear nor do they grieve -Qur'an

Do you have a reference for this ayat?

Jazakallah

Mr Partypooper -i agree with what you say

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COOLDUDE- you are right too

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but ASIF…you are very narrow minded…or should i use the word ignorant?

AS FOR CELEBRATING EID-MILADUN-NABI…did the Prophet (pbuh) ever do that? i think it is wrong to celebrate your OWN brithday let alone that of the Prophet (pbuh). It all comes from the Christians (as they celebrate the birth of Isa -known as CHRISTMAS)

and as for PIRS…how can you ask them for stuff? why not ask Allah (swt) directly?

Cooldude the reference is near the beginning of the cut n paste…

I posted it coz a lot of times ppl dont bother reading a link or an answer and just carry on with their own views regardless.

now if you would all first read the url(the link is at the END line of my last post!)
first…

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Dear Bro…
If celebrating a birth day of anybody is not allowed…mean its Biddah…innovation whatever…but still if your family…any of your relatives celebrate it then you should put the same Fatwa on them first and then come to those who celebrate Eid Milad un Nabi…Charity starts at home first(don’t say that you don’t celebrate or attend birth day parties). Proof of everything from Prophet’s(peace be upon him) time… We Sunnis take it as a funny question…caz I have seen debates where Wahabi Ulimas asked the same question and when got their answer…couldn’t find anywhere to hide…BTW when you do so manythings in life which were never done by loving Prophet(peace be upon him and his family) and his Sehabas(Radi Allah an Hum) you don’t call them Biddah…but when it comes to Milad Un Nabi…your faces go black…hearts start burning…you would listen Indian songs…but Naahts seem Biddah to you…I am surprised how come a Muslim could do that…because these are Saitan’s qualities…
Today its First of Rabi ul Awal…unable to explain the happiness…joy…colours and love around me …no words at all

Salaam,

Wasir: We don't celebrate Birthdays any more in my family. What kind of celebration did Prophet Muhammed have for his birthdays?

Did Hazrat Ali celebrate his birthday? Did any of the Sahabas celebrate their Birthdays?

We celebrate Eid. What is your logic based on Islam that Prophet Muhammed's (PBUH) birthday should be celebrated?

Is this what some 'pirs' teach you?

wasalaam

Cooldude,

Did the blessed Prophet have a Qur’an in book form like today? No

Did Hazrat Abu Bakr? No
Did Hazrat Umar? No
Did their Qur’an have zabbar and zers on it?
(called 'iraab)? No
Did the mosques in Huzoor Paak’s time (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) have minbars? No
Did they have a mihraab? No

etc. etc.

Then why do mosques all over the world have these today? And why are all the Qur’ans today in book form with zabar and zers on the letters and punctuation? These are ALL **bid’ahs ** which were not in the Blessed Prophet’s time (alayhisalatosalam).

The truth is that they ARE bidahs BUT not all bidahs are bad. In fact the scholars of Islam have divided bidah’s into 5 categories (eg Imam Nawawi): obligatory [wajib], necessary [sunnah], haraam, makruh and mubah (I think these are the five). Now to have the Qur’an with zabars and zers is a wajib bidah and the scholars have said it is a necesarry bidah to celebrate milad.

If you dont want to do it–then dont but please dont go around saying it is wrong when you have no knowledge about the matter.

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Rabbi ul Awwal Mubarak to all the ushaaq.

(btw I see no one has read the link I provided with evidences).

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You used the example of Quran having punctuation in it - the original Quran doesn't have this on there, everybody should know this. The punctuation has been added to make it easier to read - No scholar has said that this distorts the meaning of the Quran as the wording is exactly the same.

However, your point is taken.

What category does celebrating Prophet Muhammed's birthday come under? and what evidence is there that this is permissible?

jazakallah

Cooldude......
if you want answers of any of your questions....this is the best time......
Which area in Uk r u from?....hopefully I would be able to provide you details of any Milad un Nabi Activities going in your area....just attend any of those Mehafils(don't eat Langar if you think its....and you don't have to believe in anything).....I hope you will go home with a purified heart.....with no confusion....
Few years back I was like that.....I used to think...oh
I read five times a day....
I finish one quran in Ramdhan...
I keep Rozas....
I give Zakat.....
and do some other things....thats enough for me...I used to think those who do Milad...Khatams and other things....are uneducated...Jahil people who don't know what Islam is........this thinking made me a bit proud....my heart became hard( i never told anybody but knew from inside).......
but an incident in my life changed everything.....now I might be a better Muslim than before...but not pround on any of my Abadats.......my heart has become soft.....I am humble and quiet...better in Haqooq-ul-Aebaad........I don't know about others but what I get out of these Mehafils......is unbelieaveable.......just countless blessings of Allah....which are just increasing with every day......

Cooldude

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glad to see you are open minded alhamdulillah

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Here is a short answer, yet scholarly for you:

And if you want real detailed answer go to these links:
www.nfie.com

and to the section called “resources”. In it you will find loads of detailed evidence for milad.

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[This message has been edited by Asif (edited May 24, 2001).]