Socialists in the midst

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

Pakistan has suffered tremendously at the hands of socialists (and their commie handlers). These vermin destroyed Pak’s industry; it’s banks, and the education system. They have successfully prevented transition of Pakistani society from agriculture economy to industrial economy. They still talk about the now-debunked Nehruvian policies.

It is time to move away from the big-tax big-government. It is time to let the entrepreneurship and business acumen of Pakistani youth gets freedom.

It is time to fight the high sales tax and the tax-collector mafia in the cities, and Patwaris in the rural area. The twin-evils have put a chokehold on our businesses and the agri-farms.

The day we get our economy going, MAToo terrorist and Mad-Russah-Gir culture will disappear. Salvation of Pakistan is in fewer taxes, small government, and totally revamped tax collection system.

Down with the socialists (Show-Shaw-lists)

2

how is socialism related to any of the things you cited as being bad? :confused:

also, what makes you think pakistan would be better off transitioning from an agricultural economy to a predominantly industrial one? why not start with step one - encourage the agricultural sector with land reforms.

3

Well, Queer has made a valid point. This is one root problem that we are faced with and sadly our leaders have not been able to do much in this regard.

And anti, as much as some of your points make sense, how do you justify having a small tax base for Pakistan??? I would say, we need to expand the tax base and bring those people who are the real tax evaders within its fold. Middle class and working people like us are the main source of revenue when it comes to paying taxes. YEh kahan ka insaaf hai.

4

Our current Army President had a new PM with the largest ever cabinet in the history of Pakistan around 62 or some ministers. So dear, the Army loves big governments. At least they can control their ex-commie (PPPP or may be 5P's) members in government or in control.

As per Agri Reform, as long as there are MAToos in the parliament there cannot be any land reform. ohh by the way I mean both Military-American-Tatoo and their Mullahs. As long as the Army and its goons are hungry for power and spend money to buy PPPPP or PML members they will have less to spend on Schools, so consider your Mudrassahs a blessing.

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
..... why not start with step one - encourage the agricultural sector with land reforms.
[/QUOTE]

Land reforms: Good old Show-Shaw-list Nehruvian theory.

It is bad to put limits on the farm size (in terms of $$ or acreage).

It is like telling Microsoft to limit its valuation to $1 billion. Anything more than $1 billion will be snatched/stolen and given free to the Java programmer from LaluKhet.

We should encourage increasing the size of land holdings instead of decreasing it. Treat the the big farms as industrial establishments and let the landowners float shares on the stock exchange.

That will bring more capital in, and spur the growth of farm products in addition to the farm-based auxiliary products like Jams, jellies, wine, breakfast cereals, canned vegetables etc.

6

antiobl, ever heard the term "appropriate technology"? what works for the west will NOT work in a country like pak. even in your rather unfair analogy, microsoft and other big firms are restricted by law from unfair monopolizing of the market.

jams, jellies, canned food? these come from orchards. west punjab has one of the most fertile plains in the world for growing more essential crops.

your approach for bringing industrialization is simply to chop off agriculture from the scene.

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *

Land reforms: Good old Show-Shaw-list Nehruvian theory.

It is bad to put limits on the farm size (in terms of $$ or acreage).

It is like telling Microsoft to limit its valuation to $1 billion. Anything more than $1 billion will be snatched/stolen and given free to the Java programmer from LaluKhet.

We should encourage increasing the size of land holdings instead of decreasing it. Treat the the big farms as industrial establishments and let the landowners float shares on the stock exchange.

That will bring more capital in, and spur the growth of farm products in addition to the farm-based auxiliary products like Jams, jellies, wine, breakfast cereals, canned vegetables etc.
[/QUOTE]

you are on crack. do you even know how the small farmers in the west struggle due to pressure from corporate farms? it is not in the interests of the country to reduce the ownership of common man. coporations ruin anywhere they go. have you seen the impact of wal mart on mom and pop stores in american towns? the owners of small stores who earned descent living are forced to work at 8/hr wages and end up worse.

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
what works for the west will NOT work in a country like pak.
...
[/QUOTE]

Sure man! Things that work in the west like, this computer on my desk, electricity, phone, cars, buses, roads, rail, planes, schools, colleges, English language ......can never work in Pak.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
....microsoft ...restricted by law from unfair monopolizing ....
....
[/QUOTE]

Anti-monopoly laws, level the playing field in

company-to-company link,
and not
in company-to-worker link.

Sure if one farm is monopolizing a region, split it into 2 or at the most 3. They still will be large farms. But you cannot go around hounding the landowners at your whim.

Pak socialists (Show-Shaw-list) want to import Laalu-Bihari's antagonism that has practically ruined the farmer-worker link there. Even if you don't want me to talk about Bihar, just read what happened to West Bengal agri-economy due to their Show-Shaw-list policies.

The idea of land reforms was debunked many years ago just like its father the communism. It is simply futile to bring this commie socialist propaganda back on the table.

9

Q and Anti are both right . In south asia for far too long there has been a father knows best attitude exhibited by the government. India, it was the congress led economic policies for 37 years, until 1991. In pak, it is the army that is to blame. I think in Pak though, the army has gotten smarter and is realizing that to validate it's existence as a governing force it needs to much more than wave the jhanda.

Growth occurs from entralized economies when capital is freed. In Pakistan it is still held in terms of land due ot the primary agri nature of the economy. Capital must be converted from land ownership to product/services ownership in a industrialized state. It doesn;t happen overnight but by focus on the right sectors to provide growth, yu cna get there faster. If anyone can tell me what the USP for Pakistan is, then we cna start examining how to make that transition.

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
.....India, it was the congress led economic policies for 37 years, until 1991.

.....In pak, it is the army that is to blame. ....
[/QUOTE]

Right about Bharat.

Wrong about Pakistan. Pak-Army did try to keep the country as market-friendly as possible. Pakistan gained tremendously from the entrepreneurship until all hell broke loose during Bhatto-MAToo regime. This epitome of Show-Shaw-lism wrecked unbelievable havoc with Pak economy.

The second havoc was wrecked by another Show-Shaw-list party, this time limited to Karachi. This group of anarchists totally broke the back of hard working people of Karachi. For Bharatis not familiar with Pakistan, I’d say Karachi just like New York, was the center of trade for the whole country. The fascists and the Mullah cabal turned it into the killing fields.

Hopefully the bad days are behind us. Karachi again is a city of lights, and a destination for the young throughout Pakistan. Mantra these days is “Go South young man, go South”. The process will be even faster when Gawader becomes fully operational.

You talk about availability of capital in Pak. Bud! You need to make a trip across the border. Check out the economic activity and dynamism exhibited in Lahore, Karachi, Faisalabad, Gujranwala, Wazirabad, and Sialkot.

The shining example is the city of Sialkot where bunch of entrepreneurs with access to capital, took the city away from the Feds and completely turned it around. Sialkot city roads are much better now. They are building probably the first private international airport in the region (under cost and under budget).

Just stand at the Wagah border and compare the Bharati side with Pak side. You will see how the Pak side is much more Urban and developed.

Hopefully soon, Pak farmers and entrepreneurs will get rid of this Show-Shaw-list MAToo crowd.

11

Dekho bhai...I am sure there is tremendous growth and development happening but this can be a blip due to capital flows related to 9/11 and/or short term spike from the depths of where the economy was. I simply do not see a sustained long term economic policy, unless you can show me which caters to reality based programs rather than "we expect our eports to grow 25% y/y over the next five years while imprts grow at a much higher rate. As I said, long term economic growth depends on sectors of excellence within the economy that can compete in a global arena. Show me that and I will give the army a hat anda cigar, until then they will always be idiots who misdirect funds to buy planes rather than implement training programs for migrant workers.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
....I simply do not see a sustained long term economic policy [in Pakistan]....
[/QUOTE]

Bud! Check out the thread. It was Show-Shaw-lists's topic and the discussion is clearly about their impact on Pakistan. Bhatto-MATtoo and his progeny BB are the two major proponents of this Show-Shaw-lism.

Kapeesh!!

p.s. What's wrong with Bharatis that they hate a healthy Pakistan and try to put down its name at every occasion. I bet you have never been to Pak, so quit being a negative chamchi.

p.p.s. Go compare Bharat with China. Same population and similar resources should be a good basis for comparison.