So who here still thinks that apostasy is punishable by death?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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http://archive.eteraz.org/story/2007/3/18/9426/53820

The most concise and straight-up attack on apostasy I have seen, ever.

Anyone who still believes in punishing apostates by death should not be speaking from this point on.

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Re: So who here still thinks that apostasy is punishable by death?

You have pointed to the same argument which I have been trying to make in several threads.

We must have our priorities correct, any guidance we can get from Quran is first and foremost. Second are the principles of sunnah i.e. betterment of Islam, betterment of human morality, and logical evaluation of situation. However typical mullahism wrongly implies Hadith as sunnah. Hadith has to be audited very severly under the teachings of quran and princiles of sunnah.

All this killing business is because of understanding Islam with wrong priorities. Putting Hadith before quran and principles of sunnah is like putting horse before the cart. Let me give you some Hadiths which are on the subject and leave it up to the readers to understand the point I am trying to make.

Sahih Bukhari V9 B83 #17 wrote:
“Allah’s Apostle said, The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”

Sahih Bukhari V9 B84 #57 wrote:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

Sahih Bukhari V9 B84 #58 wrote:
Abu Musa said, “I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash’ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah’s Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O ‘Abdullah bin Qais!).’ I said, ‘By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.’ As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or ‘Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.’” The Prophet then sent Mu’adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu’adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, “Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, ‘I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.’”

Sahih Bukhari V9 B83 #73 wrote:
"Allah’s Apostle said, The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims

Sahih Bukhari V4 B52 #260 wrote:
Narrated 'Ikrima: 'Ali burnt some people and this news reached ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as [Muhammad] said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for [Muhammad] said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him

Sahih Bukhari V9 B89 #271 wrote:
Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu’adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu’adh asked, “What is wrong with this (man)?” Abu Musa replied, “He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism.” Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Sahih Bukhari V9 B84 wrote:
The legal regulation concerning the male and the female who reverts from Islam (apostates). Ibn 'Umar, Az-Zuhri and Ibrahim said, "A female apostate (who reverts from Islam), should be killed. And the obliging of the reverters from Islam (apostates) to repent. Allah said: — ‘How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and (after) they bore witness that the Apostle (Muhammad) was true, and that Clear Signs had come unto them? And Allah does not guide the wrong-doing people. As for such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, the Angels, and of all mankind. They will abide there-in (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened nor it will be postponed (for a while). Except for those that repent after that and make amends. Verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Surely those who disbelieved after their belief, and go on adding to their defiance of faith, never will their repentance be accepted, and they are those who have gone astray.’

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Re: So who here still thinks that apostasy is punishable by death?

^ Salam brother,

This topic is beaten down to death please get your reference from Quran go ahead, leave alone the hadith get your reference from Quran and I challenge you.
Now this is mullahism and blind following. I know its the hadith, but provide your reference from Quran.

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Re: So who here still thinks that apostasy is punishable by death?

I agree with you totally, and do not subscribe to follow hadiths without looking at the larger picture laid down by quran and principles of sunnah.

The reason to show these hadiths is show the muslims how they can be misled by just looking at these hadiths in isolation, and without understanding the whole picture.

I am doing my peaceful jihad against mullahism by showing the logical flaws in the Islam as presented by our clergy. I refuse to call it Islam, for me it is another religion called mullahism....

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Re: So who here still thinks that apostasy is punishable by death?

Salam brother,

Chalo phir to theek hain, so you were being sarcastic, next time if you are being sarcastic like copyright symbol, sarcastic ka bhi ek symbol dal do.lol