Go to Swat and express freedom of speech their,.. you are one messed up mind.. get a life !
Irrelevant and ad hominem...I guess as long as you are toeing the ruling party of gupistan's line you can indulge in whatever violation of rules you want...
Irrelevant and ad hominem...I guess as long as you are toeing the ruling party of gupistan's line you can indulge in whatever violation of rules you want...
And yet you still have no reply but can only complain.
We dont give the Army enough credit... I mean, the peace treaty may be seen as capitulation, but do we really want to turn Mingora and all its outside villages to rubble, while creating Millions of internally displaced people?
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
^^^ enough credit? They don't deserve any credit at all. I was reading other day that less than 10% of Pakistan military assets are deployed against invading hordes of terrorists & rest of the them are against India. When are we going to learn that Indians don't want any part of our jihadis infested land anymore & biggest threat to Pakistan is internal & not external?
^^^ enough credit? They don't deserve any credit at all. I was reading other day that less than 10% of Pakistan military assets are deployed against invading hordes of terrorists & rest of the them are against India. When are we going to learn that Indians don't want any part of our jihadis infested land anymore & biggest threat to Pakistan is internal & not external?
frankly i would like to see go slow approach pushing them and adjusting yourself.
let the situation on ground dictate how much force need to be applied rather using brute force in start.
it aint a war but a low intensity conflict whereby putting pressure and breaking will matters most than killing.
let see what happens i see few more fronts opening in few days specially in swat.
regards
Junaid
^^^ enough credit? They don't deserve any credit at all. I was reading other day that less than 10% of Pakistan military assets are deployed against invading hordes of terrorists & rest of the them are against India. When are we going to learn that Indians don't want any part of our jihadis infested land anymore & biggest threat to Pakistan is internal & not external?
Yeah but imagine the consequence of starting a full scale war. All of swat is turned into rubble and the Millions of its inhaitants are forced to leave. Where will these people go? Many of the Bajaur natives are now in Karachi which is adding to the conflict between ethnic groups there.
Its a very delicate matter, I dont think we appreciate the ground realities. I dont think you can just walk in and start blowing things up.
Like Junaid said, you cant just start bashing people over the head.
Lets not forget that they have tried that before and it hasnt worked.
That may very well be the case, but we cannot win this war unless Pakistan does what Sri Lanka has done to Tamil terrorists. That is the only way.
Also read this: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/320013-locals-see-ruthless-operation-only-swat-solution.html
That may well be what needs to be done eventually, but lets also appreciate the inherant difficulties in this approach. The Sri Lankans have been at war for over 20 years, and its produced untold misery.
Its not an easy decision to make considering the potential consequences.
There are many geo political and regional issues to contend with aswell, like the real threat of India trying to isolate Pakistan on both sides.
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
That's all true, but these places don't need to turn into rubble if more boots are put on the ground to conduct search and seizure operations as opposed to leveling towns through artillery and air strikes.
We dont give the Army enough credit... I mean, the peace treaty may be seen as capitulation, but do we really want to turn Mingora and all its outside villages to rubble, while creating Millions of internally displaced people?
Credit for what? Surrendering in large numbers? Not using their best soldiers to protect Pakistani citizens from barbarians? Brigadiers who pray with Maulan Fazlullah? A Signals Corps that cannot block an FM radio station? A GHQ that is dreaming of "strategic depth" and letting its own backyard be infested with medieval thugs?
Swat could have been saved if Gen. Kayani gave a simple order to kill TTP leadership and all the foot soldiers would have run away.
If they can play a recording of Fazlullah within hours, then why not kill him? He is giving interviews from his home madrassa and our super duper ISI claims to have no idea where he is.
Instead our Jarnails want to preserve the "option" of using jihadis and Talibans for some chess game that they don't even understand.
Even today we are seeing operations outside of Swat but nothing in the core area.
If you want to really fight then you should fight for your people first. Not just fighting because Americans threatened to cutoff your aid supply.
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
good points jaanbaaz.
Credit for what? Surrendering in large numbers? Not using their best soldiers to protect Pakistani citizens from barbarians? Brigadiers who pray with Maulan Fazlullah? A Signals Corps that cannot block an FM radio station? A GHQ that is dreaming of "strategic depth" and letting its own backyard be infested with medieval thugs?
Swat could have been saved if Gen. Kayani gave a simple order to kill TTP leadership and all the foot soldiers would have run away.
If they can play a recording of Fazlullah within hours, then why not kill him? He is giving interviews from his home madrassa and our super duper ISI claims to have no idea where he is.
Instead our Jarnails want to preserve the "option" of using jihadis and Talibans for some chess game that they don't even understand.
Even today we are seeing operations outside of Swat but nothing in the core area.
If you want to really fight then you should fight for your people first. Not just fighting because Americans threatened to cutoff your aid supply.
Credit for laying their lives on the line for an unpopular war. The Jawans who are on the front lines know what the war is really like, and the people who make the calls know the difficulties involved in fighting this war.
Pakistan does not want to fight these people because they know the consequences of this war.
I think we forget those consequences all to easily, and start blame game far to quickly.
You people should try to understand the inherent difficulties in fighting this war.
Eventually they will have to fight the enemy head on. But lets not forget that this isnt an easy decision. America has the luxury of sitting thousands of miles away, Pakistan does not.
We cant do what was done in Bangladesh, nor can we be ruthless and heartless like the Indians in Kashmir. Developing an effective counter insurgency wil take time.
And again, I ask that you people keep Pakistan's genuine regional security needs in mind. I think we already know what those security problems are, so we should appreciate the difficulty of such a war.
I for one would hate to be running the helm in Pakistan.
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
The Swat deal for example was something that had to be undertaken for the sake of peace. It was worth a shot, because negotiated peace is worth it.
A lot of people. such as the Indian members of this forum, who couldn't even point to Swat on a map, are gloating that its capitulation. But are we really going to turn Swat to rubble? Do we really want Millions of internally displaced? Do we really want to follow the Indian lead and turn Swat into Kashmir?
Take everything in and then decide whether peace in the Swat is worth attempting to make deals with the devil.
I think you people should simply learn to appreciate the complexity of the situation.
Yes, its a desperate situation but is the solution really to allow this person to govern in Swat ?
That's all true, but these places don't need to turn into rubble if more boots are put on the ground to conduct search and seizure operations as opposed to leveling towns through artillery and air strikes.
Developing those counter insurgency tactics will time.
The reason the cant do search and seizure is because the Taliban are waiting around each corner to kill them.
Before they can do search and seizure, they have to secure the area, and that means using artillery and air strikes.
Pakistan does not have the percision tactics employed by the US... Any war to dislodge Taliban will certainly mean huge collateral damage.
Bajaur isnt half as dense as Mingora and the rest of Swat. So imagine the extent of the destruction...
No im not sayigng you allow this Sufi nut to take over..
I just think we need to stop being so hard on the Army and the govt. We tend to over simplify a complex situation.
There are so many factors at play here, and yet all we want is to go in and start shoting everyone.
Pakistan works under a number of constraints.
While eventually all out war is needed, we should appreciate the difficulty that the country is facing and understand that its not an easy decision to make.
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
And lets not forget, its not we who are getting killed, or have the threat of death looming over our heads.
Regardless of their performance, the Pak Army jawans have laid their lives on the line for ths war that so few actually support, all for the sake of their country.
As the commander in the video said, losing a leg is a necessary sacrafice it in the defense of his nation.
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
^^ kindly complete Colonel full sentence when he said
' most importantly sacrificing for our religion' !
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
Med911
There are no major inherent difficulties here. Soldiers are there to fight and ours are some of the best in the world.
It breaks my heart to see jawans and captains and majors risking their lives for the games played by our Generals.
None of this problem would have escalated if GHQ did not decide to let Swat become a jihadi adda for months, all for some g*****ose "strategic depth" plan. It is bullcrap to say that the option was choosing between "aman muhayday" and turning Swat into rubble. A high school student could have identified the FM stations and locations of Fazlullah. A simple SSG raid could have killed Fazullah and his top lieutenants.
Why is that guy still alive when everyone knows where he lives? Why are Brigadiers palling around with him?
Whether it is here or Kargil, our Generals always let our frontline soldiers down. We play games that are beyond our capabilities and without thinking of consequences.
Re: So, General Tariq is on Swat Front
You think guerilla fight is kind of joke !
30 years for IRA and British and 25 years for Sri Lanka and Tamil and still go on…Nixel in India…Kashmir where for 20 years after 1989 , 13,000 or 15,000 cannot be controlled by 500,000 Indian Army
take a sigh and drink a chill glass of Lassi with bun makhan … its takes years to win such un-conventional wars where eneemy take human shield as a weapon and operate from behind the civilians 