Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
Well Musharraf might be worried but Zardari will not. If CJ goes after NRO someone's life will be in danger, and that someone is not Zardari or Musharraf.
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
/\ /\ /\ wow..........what makes you say that
Firstly, a soldier takes an OATH that he wont indulge in politics, the rest of the stuff, abrogating the constitution etc all comes in later. Secondly, who do you think spent millions of dollars pursuing cases of corruption, money laundering against Zardari, and then when the time for the deal was here, withdrew everything? Its so pathetic how Musharraf churned out a GOOD fraction of the country's money pursuing cases against Zardari for his stolen money only to pardon him later and bring him on to the top seat of Pakistan. Please stop showing this closet sympathy for a criminal. BB and NS didnt go on for more than 2 years, Mush went on with his crime spree for almost a decade, and without much opposition.
Data, to clear one thing , I have no sympathy for Musharraf , and infact as a true Pakistani I equally will not forgive him for some of his actions specially during the last few months when he did everything worst possible to cling to power ... but .. if justice it is that we demand , then it should be brought on all the others who are much worse in action and have done everything to loot and destabilise pakistan ..... and yet they get all the votes!!!
constitutional or unconstitutional , a crime is a crime ... and unless criminals are given justice fairly , crime will not stop ... we blame the army for everything , has anyone thought why the politicians werent upto the mark to face the army? the politicians let us down so severely that there was void left for the army to come in and do what they wanted ...
I sincerely feel , its the politicians that should be hanged so that in the future none of this lot would consider plotting against the homeland and that should be deterrant enough for the army generals ....
hanging an army general wont teach any of the politicans a lesson ... they will carry on with their lies and pathetic morals ... and we the innocent people of paksitan will continue to become pawns at their hands ..
Pathetic !
Data, to clear one thing , I have no sympathy for Musharraf , and infact as a true Pakistani I equally will not forgive him for some of his actions specially during the last few months when he did everything worst possible to cling to power ... but .. if justice it is that we demand , then it should be brought on all the others who are much worse in action and have done everything to loot and destabilise pakistan ..... and yet they get all the votes!!!
constitutional or unconstitutional , a crime is a crime ... and unless criminals are given justice fairly , crime will not stop ... we blame the army for everything , has anyone thought why the politicians werent upto the mark to face the army? the politicians let us down so severely that there was void left for the army to come in and do what they wanted ...
I sincerely feel , its the politicians that should be hanged so that in the future none of this lot would consider plotting against the homeland and that should be deterrant enough for the army generals ....
hanging an army general wont teach any of the politicans a lesson ... they will carry on with their lies and pathetic morals ... and we the innocent people of paksitan will continue to become pawns at their hands ..
Pathetic !
So youd rather die at the hand of a general rather then a politician..........fair enough.
The only problem is that some of the crimes of Mush have so grave consequences for this country that you cant paint him as a man of uniform.
I mean what sort of a general sells his people to the enemy and then announce it proudly in his book. What guardian of the nation allows its land to be bombarded by the enemy. "I am a commando Main darta nai hoon but they were gonna bomb us to stone age". I am not saying we wouldnt be in the mess we are in FATA and Balochistan but this should have been handled with a lot more care
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
How else would you have liked to handle those events? Give examples, not just empty ego boosting slogans.
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
Biryani you dont seem to have understood what I said. If you have no sympathy with them, then lets be clear, he needs to be made an example of, in a proper and fair trial.
Secondly, now since you brought other politicians in. Are you forgetting who spent millions of dollars in pursuing cases against Zardari, and pardoning him? Thats no different from stealing money because either way, the county lost millions of dollars in a lost cause.
As for politicians not being upto the mark, there is something called law. You dont need to hang people just because they are incompetent, you bar them from contesting based on their misdeeds and performance. Zardari, a perfect example of someone that needs to be barred was presented with the golden NRO and presented the highest office of the country by someone. Now you want to hang someone, hang the general, because he deserves to be hung not just according to the law for abrogating the constitution, but bringing that 'politician' back.
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
If an NRO can be announced to write off billions Zardari stole and to forgive thousands MQM killed what wrong have Balochs done not to deserve a general immunity. I know and understand the role BLA has and is playing but you dont tackle BLA by expanding its support base..........but dont you think if you allow people certain oppurtunities in life which Balochs for one reason or another have been denied they will themselves reject the BLA agenda. Its a well known fact now that even the Americans were surperised at the speed at which Mr Mush the brave commando accepted all their demands without trying any sort of Diplomacy......even the Americans didnt expet to have all their demands accepted. He could have gone to parliment to hide behind the cover of democracy Oh wait he didnt have a parliment and I wonder why. The FATA problem today is a much worse one then the original Taliban problem. There are so many types backed by different regional powers but there are some friendly to Pakistan.....they were all friendly to Pakistan when the whole thing started.
Biryani you dont seem to have understood what I said. If you have no sympathy with them, then lets be clear, he needs to be made an example of, in a proper and fair trial.
Secondly, now since you brought other politicians in. Are you forgetting who spent millions of dollars in pursuing cases against Zardari, and pardoning him? Thats no different from stealing money because either way, the county lost millions of dollars in a lost cause.
As for politicians not being upto the mark, there is something called law. You dont need to hang people just because they are incompetent, you bar them from contesting based on their misdeeds and performance. Zardari, a perfect example of someone that needs to be barred was presented with the golden NRO and presented the highest office of the country by someone. Now you want to hang someone, hang the general, because he deserves to be hung not just according to the law for abrogating the constitution, but bringing that 'politician' back.
Agreed...........
How come it was wrong of an elected PM with constitutional powers to replace a COAS.
But an un elected president with no constitutional power can remove a CJ.............on both occasions violating the very constitution he swore to defend and upheld.
Agreed........... How come it was wrong of an elected PM with constitutional powers to replace a COAS. But an un elected president with no constitutional power can remove a CJ.............on both occasions violating the very constitution he swore to defend and upheld.
Guys I agree with you wholeheartedly on what you mentioned on Musharraf yeah .. I agree to that he should be brought to trial ...
But what I am sayng is that our country will never move forward because I beLieve unless we punish the politicians , the tom and jerry game between the politican and the general will continue ...
With musharraf getting disgraced , General Kayyani learnt the lesson and although the nation feared that there would be another coup , the army didnt take any such steps ...
however the politicans who have been bringing equal damage to Pakistan over the years , still loom around getting people's sympathies ... they still play with our emotions and get away with it .. I want equal justice for them coz they are no different then Musharraf ... infact they are more dangerous .. coz musharraf got disgraces and thats sthe end of his political career ... but look at Zardari , even disgrace couldnt help stop people sympathising with him or the other politicians that saroo mentioned in his email ...
If the executive management of a company is weak, you cant hold responsible the competitors that try to take over the company !
same thing applies to the politics , politicians are moral-less pathetic fools ... they are the ones who allow people like musharraf to take over ... and if the nation wants to make someone an example , then it should be the politicians rather then the army generals ...
remember that day when musharraf took over NS government ? there was joy every where ! people wouldnt have hailed him AT ALL if they were happy with NS !
we have to try to kill the root cause of the problem rather then cutting trees frantically !!
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
If you give one of these politicians the time Mush had trust me they will do more damage to themselves then we could by punishing them. You kill one and he becomes a hero.
I agree …
Guys I agree with you wholeheartedly on what you mentioned on Musharraf yeah .. I agree to that he should be brought to trial ...
But what I am sayng is that our country will never move forward because I beLieve unless we punish the politicians , the tom and jerry game between the politican and the general will continue ...
So whats stopping us from punishing them? 10 years of uninterrupted army rule, where was the punishment?
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With musharraf getting disgraced , General Kayyani learnt the lesson and although the nation feared that there would be another coup , the army didnt take any such steps ...
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I dont think he learnt any lessons, hes just a real man unlike Musharraf. He knows the army has no business meddling in civilian affairs, and values what Jinnah said to the military in his speeches.
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however the politicans who have been bringing equal damage to Pakistan over the years , still loom around getting people's sympathies ... they still play with our emotions and get away with it .. I want equal justice for them coz they are no different then Musharraf
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Let the people decide which politicians they will pick, free and fair elections.
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... infact they are more dangerous ..
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I disagree, we might have been in somewhat of an economic mess in the 90s, but thigs over all were still better than musharraf's dark ages.
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coz musharraf got disgraces and thats sthe end of his political career ... but look at Zardari , even disgrace couldnt help stop people sympathising with him or the other politicians that saroo mentioned in his email ...
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He wants to come back, didnt you read his latest articles?
[quote]
If the executive management of a company is weak, you cant hold responsible the competitors that try to take over the company !
same thing applies to the politics , politicians are moral-less pathetic fools ... they are the ones who allow people like musharraf to take over ... and if the nation wants to make someone an example , then it should be the politicians rather then the army generals ...
[/quote]
Army Generals have no place in politics, end of story. They plunge the country into a much more serious mess than what they inherit, and after they leave the democracy that insues isnt viable thanks to their 'mudaakhlat' (things like nro, 13th amendments etc)
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remember that day when musharraf took over NS government ? there was joy every where ! people wouldnt have hailed him AT ALL if they were happy with NS !
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Yes there was, i agree, i was happy too. BUT had nawaz completed his term and finished he was done for good but no, we gave him the golden oppurtunity to come back because the nation was faced with a much larger villain in the form of General Musharraf.
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we have to try to kill the root cause of the problem rather then cutting trees frantically !!
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Yes, let the legislative and judicial system work without any interference. This is why the independent judiciary is so important.
So whats stopping us from punishing them? 10 years of uninterrupted army rule, where was the punishment?
Whats stopping us from pursuing crimes against politicians now? :)
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
^ i) Puppet Dogar
ii) Zardari
Fortunately, that will change pretty soon :)
Whats stopping us from pursuing crimes against politicians now? :)
You will keep asking this question for the next 20 years and not get a proper answer :)
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
Some politicians have already had theirs... Altaf Bhai was convicted on a murder count already.
Some politicians have already had theirs... Altaf Bhai was convicted on a murder count already.
no matter how much these guys are punished they are still the main figures on the political scene and still get the votes !!
even if they are convicted they have a following ! thats no punishment ... thats what i meant when I said they are more dangerous then a freaky general !
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
^ Thats because the conviction was done in absentia, he never really fulfilled the punishment. He is still at large and is still operating his party because he never got to serve his term.
^ Thats because the conviction was done in absentia, he never really fulfilled the punishment. He is still at large and is still operating his party because he never got to serve his term.
they all have their excuses dont they ? Altaf H living in london but still running the party .... zardari will run to Dubai and run the party through his teenage son .... nawaz sharif will run back to saudi and is grooming his son hamza sharif for the play !!!
they will continue to live as they are and nothing will change ... we are the ones who will always find excuses of why they werent held liable !
Re: Sleepless nights for Musharraf
CB judicial system works, its not a concept unique to Pakistan. Ever heard of Roman Polanski? Absconding criminals at large still have influence but its significantly less. Nawaz Sharif is already convicted though one can argue it was politically motivated, and as far as great Zardari is concerned, the charges against him were dropped last year. Again, let the system work, and then judge its performance. Also, you raised concerns altaf is still running his party; lets hope fresh cases are opened and his henchmen who are assisting him, and the ones that came back to assist him after the NRO are tried.