why big NO when people of province don't know to write and read national language. Have you ever been to rural Sindh. do you know there still exist a generation which can only speak one language and i.e. Sindhi. In such circumstances, why they don't have right to have their id cards in Sindhi?
In post #9, I wrote to educate every Pakistani (which is fundamental right for every Pak child anyway)
And at the same time promote a national language, which should be known to everyone. That should be the state policy. You objected to the idea and said that literature will be destroyed.
So then my clarification in post #11: local language should be taught in school as a subject and should be supported at literary level. But language for national assets such as ID card should be the national language only.
If someone from Sindh with an ID card goes to Khyber, they should be able to read it. Got the point?
And BTW, the people in rural Sindh you are referreing to are unable to read and write EVERY language, I bet they can't read the card even if it is written in Sindhi.
In post #9, I wrote to educate every Pakistani (which is fundamental right for every Pak child anyway)
And at the same time promote a national language, which should be known to everyone. That should be the state policy. You objected to the idea and said that literature will be destroyed.
So then my clarification in post #11: local language should be taught in school as a subject and should be supported at literary level. But language for national assets such as ID card should be the national language only.
If someone from Sindh with an ID card goes to Khyber, they should be able to read it. Got the point?
And BTW, the people in rural Sindh you are referreing to are unable to read and write EVERY language, I bet they can't read the card even if it is written in Sindhi.
Before giving such statements, you should first research how the medium of instructions work in rural Sindh. giving statement like this prove that either you are unaware or may (I'm sorry to say) a victim of biasness.
Are you living in Kana Kacha? Multiple languages are being spoken in the US. People who do not speak English they have full right to bring translator. Canada is Bilingual. Have you visited Japan? In Japan both English and Japanese are now language of communication. After China has become member of WTO, English has become their language of businesses. Come out from pond in Kana Kacha.
Precisely because this gives racists like you a reason to fight, I am opposed to the idea of writing ID cards in more than 100 languages and dialects being spoken all over Pakistan.
If you want to have a normal argument about a national issue, you are more than welcome to discuss and I'll reply.
But the experience with you so far shows that your thoughts begin and end with racism only so no need to discuss such an important issue with racists like you.
Before giving such statements, you should first research how the medium of instructions work in rural Sindh. giving statement like this prove that either you are unaware or may (I'm sorry to say) a victim of biasness.
Ok, lets take my last statement away for the argument sake.
What about the rest? Here re-posting without that statement:
*In post #9, I wrote to educate every Pakistani (which is fundamental right for every Pak child anyway)
And at the same time promote a national language, which should be known to everyone. That should be the state policy. You objected to the idea and said that literature will be destroyed.
So then my clarification in post #11: local language should be taught in school as a subject and should be supported at literary level. But language for national assets such as ID card should be the national language only.
If someone from Sindh with an ID card goes to Khyber, they should be able to read it. Got the point?
Why do need example from other countries? Why to compare Pakistan with India or any other countries?
The card is in 'Sindhi' language and whether it should remain in 'Sindhi' or in 'Urdu' is an internal matter. If we don't get agree with each others then what will the third person do. Let a side what other countries does and does not.
We have syllabus in arabic too. That doesn't mean one should stand and get his/her ID printed in arabic b'coz he/she knows the arabic. There should be one standard of printing of the card.
I myself even don't like that a person living withing Pakistan having CNIC and overseas having NICOP. I liked the idea of SNIC which have both english and urdu language. At least they can use one ID for both purpose.
Go through this link to get your knowledge corrected :)
They may have official status but I stand corrected that 'officially' used (i.e government papers, language of Indian parliament, language of legislation etc etc) languages in India are Hindi and English.
I'm not using Wikipedia as a source here. These words are from personal research and words straight out of the mouth of countless Indians who actually lived in India.
Ok, lets take my last statement away for the argument sake.
What about the rest. Here re-posting without that statement:
*In post #9, I wrote to educate every Pakistani (which is fundamental right for every Pak child anyway)
And at the same time promote a national language, which should be known to everyone. That should be the state policy. You objected to the idea and said that literature will be destroyed.
So then my clarification in post #11: local language should be taught in school as a subject and should be supported at literary level. But language for national assets such as ID card should be the national language only.
If someone from Sindh with an ID card goes to Khyber, they should be able to read it. Got the point?
*
I agree being educated is the fundamental right that should be available to all Pakistani. Knowing national language is one thing and imposing it another thing. They teach Salees Urdu, besides Sindhi, English and Arabic and people get basic knowledge about national language. Media plays major role in promoting local language, so the new generation is aware of the national language, but still people who study till class 5 are not that aware and don't know how to write Urdu, as they start teaching English and Urdu from class six in government schools.
Regarding your query for a person employed in KP with national Id card in Sindhi, I already mentioned one can get his id card converted to Urdu at anytime, so there is no big issue if one want to keep it in Sindhi or Urdu.
Go through this link to get your knowledge corrected :)
They may have official status but I stand corrected that 'officially' used (i.e government papers, language of Indian parliament, language of legislation etc etc) languages in India are Hindi and English.
I'm not using Wikipedia as a source here. These words are from personal research and words straight out of the mouth of countless Indians who actually lived in India.
Wikipedia is not always unreliable :D you may have skipped the link, where its mentioned that court proceedings in many states were allowed to be carried in Tamil and other local languages
I agree being educated is the fundamental right that should be available to all Pakistani. Knowing national language is one thing and imposing it another thing. They teach Salees Urdu, besides Sindhi, English and Arabic and people get basic knowledge about national language. Media plays major role in promoting local language, so the new generation is aware of the national language, but still people who study till class 5 are not that aware and don't know how to write Urdu, as they start teaching English and Urdu from class six in government schools.
Regarding your query for a person employed in KP with national Id card in Sindhi, I already mentioned one can get his id card converted to Urdu at anytime, so there is no big issue if one want to keep it in Sindhi or Urdu.
We both agree on the importance of education.
In my humble opinion, Urdu should be mandatory from class 1.
Till 5th grade, local language can be used as medium of teaching side by side and afterwards only as a subject.
ID cards should be in Urdu only. The more people get educated, the more they will move outside. This is a very positive thing infact. Globalistaion says hello...
I would love to see more and more Sindhis, Punjabis, Pathans, Balochis, Saraikis mixing and living side by side ALL OVER Pakistan and not just in some concentrated areas.
One national language learned plays a major role to bring us all together.
Why do need example from other countries? Why to compare Pakistan with India or any other countries?
The card is in 'Sindhi' language and whether it should remain in 'Sindhi' or in 'Urdu' is an internal matter. If we don't get agree with each others then what will the third person do. Let a side what other countries does and does not.
We have syllabus in arabic too. That doesn't mean one should stand and get his/her ID printed in arabic b'coz he/she knows the arabic. There should be one standard of printing of the card.
I myself even don't like that a person living withing Pakistan having CNIC and overseas having NICOP. I liked the idea of SNIC which have both english and urdu language. At least they can use one ID for both purpose.
reference to India is how they are not bothered with variety of languages. One single language is not the guarantee for unity. Had that be fact, today no one would have been more united than Arabs :p
Another issue with Sindhi / Urdu cards is there are many Sindhi words which uses Alphabets that can't be pronounced in Urdu and Urdu having 38 aplphabets can't cover 52 Sindhi alphabets. Some people want to say their proper name on id cards, so they prefer their own language.
^ Once upon the a time in history, the Arab language was famously used as a tool to unite them and it definitely worked. :) ....Only to be killed again by the damaging Western colonial rule.
Ye Pakistan hai sab chalta tha chal raha hai chalta rahe ga! We are different from other part of world so to compare us with other world does not have any meaning. YES we can compare others with us BUT it's need we turn into a nation first. Peace to all
I agree with LK. I feel it's irrational to have the provincial language on official (national) documentation as it should be done using the official language/s. Thus, for Pakistan Urdu and English.
Language was** not** the reason why the Muslims lost Iberia.
Arabs were so much proud of their language that they used to call nations not knowing their language as Ajam (mute). This proud (read as arrogance) accumulated to create Arab/ Barbar conflict in Muslim Spain, besides other things and result we all know. No Arabic language in Spain today.
I agree with LK. I feel it's irrational to have the provincial language on official (national) documentation as it should be done using the official language/s. Thus, for Pakistan Urdu and English.
Its not matter of choice my dear, if some people wish and its done.
Even in British era, they promoted Sindhi. It was compulsory for British Commissioners and other officials appointed in Sindh to learn (read and write) Sindhi. They never tried to impose their language on the public. They could do that if wanted to do for their ease. Instead they promoted the local language and even current Sindhi Alphabet was developed during British era. They kept all their land revenue and tax collection record in Sindhi. When they could do that for almost 100 years rule in Sindh, why this can't be digested today just after 65 years of independence?
IMHO National ID card should be in national language, not in regional language. This ID card serves as your identity throughout the country not only in one province. Even in Sindh there are lot of people who cannot read sindhi, and i'm talking about educated people. and the argument that people in rural sindh cannot speak any other language than sidhi, then "speaking" sindhi is different thing, and reading/writing is different. I find it very hard to believe that someone who was taught to read/ write sindhi cannot read/write urdu at all?
and by the way even if we agree that people in rural areas of sindh, CAN read/write sindhi but cannot do so in Urdu, still its logical to have ID card in Urdu, they will only have to learn to read one document in urdu, while on the other hand if they travel to any other part of the country, an overwhelming majority will not be able to read whats written on their ID card.
I'm all for promoting regional languages, but having a national identity document in regional language is not promoting it, its creating needless divide and possible hindrance in many processes
PS: i have never seen an ID card in Sindhi by the way, i've spent most of my life in Karachi
IMHO National ID card should be in national language, not in regional language. This ID card serves as your identity throughout the country not only in one province. Even in Sindh there are lot of people who cannot read sindhi, and i'm talking about educated people. and the argument that people in rural sindh cannot speak any other language than sidhi, then "speaking" sindhi is different thing, and reading/writing is different. I find it very hard to believe that someone who was taught to read/ write sindhi cannot read/write urdu at all?
and by the way even if we agree that people in rural areas of sindh, CAN read/write sindhi but cannot do so in Urdu, still its logical to have ID card in Urdu, they will only have to learn to read one document in urdu, while on the other hand if they travel to any other part of the country, an overwhelming majority will not be able to read whats written on their ID card.
I'm all for promoting regional languages, but having a national identity document in regional language is not promoting it, its creating needless divide and possible hindrance in many processes
Agree, but what about the point that Urdu is unable to cater 14 Sindhi Alphabets used either in your own name, your father's name or your surname. My own surname can't be pronounced and written in Urdu.
If need be I can get my id card translated. There is not a big issue in it.
Agree, but what about the point that Urdu is unable to cater 14 Sindhi Alphabets used either in your own name, your father's name or your surname. My own surname can't be pronounced and written in Urdu.
If need be I can get my id card translated. There is not a big issue in it.
how do you write your name in English then for Identity? remember that Identity Card is entirely a different spectrum, its an Identity Document, you are supposed to be Identified by this immediately by anyone in our country, you cannot provide at the spot translation service for all Sindhi ID card holders : p
your example of translation doesn't count : p you can speak urdu better than me : ) its not the case for everyone, specially when you earlier mentioned yourself that they cannot "speak" any other language, and i've strong feeling that they also just "speak their ID card" as well don't read it. are there any schools in Sindh where "Urdu" is not taught even as a subject? not talking about medium of instructions. because i recall once watching a news piece where in a school "Qaomi Tarana" was written in sindhi : D