just out of curiosity, how many of members posting in this section these days LIVED in SINDH or have studied Sindh’s politics with REAL interest? and by SIndh’s politics I mean Sindh EXCLUDING Karachi and MQM.
NOTE for the MODS:- Don’t lock it or move this thread because in coming posts I will try to clear many misconceptions I observed our BELOVED members have about Sindh.
Re: Sindh ji politics
Enlighten us
Re: Sindh ji politics
I dont think many. Its evident how issues are debated - there are hardly any Sindhi and balochis here - they are very under-represented on this forum. Law and order reports thread was buzzing with news going on in lahore, karachi and islamabad
Re: Sindh ji politics
^First thing you should do is correct the name "Balochi"...it is the language, the people are Balochs.
Xeno, I agree, this is mostly a punjabi and mohajir forum. Some people here were calling for the army to come out immediately in Sindh. They have no idea how that would have been seen.
Re: Sindh ji politics
just out of curiosity, how many of members posting in this section these days LIVED in SINDH or have studied Sindh's politics with REAL interest? and by SIndh's politics I mean Sindh EXCLUDING Karachi and MQM.
NOTE for the MODS:- Don't lock it or move this thread because in coming posts I will try to clear many misconceptions I observed our BELOVED members have about Sindh.
I am not aware of Interior Sindh politics as which Palejo supports which Talpur, and if Chandios are friend of Jatois or if they are their enemy.....if that is what you want to discuss in this thread???
Strictly from economic and logical perspective interior Sindh is the most backward area in the country with the darkest future and in my opinion Sindhis themselves are responsible for their plight...
1) There is not a single significant business house in Pakistan belonging to Sindhi ethnic origin.....Sindhis do not educate themselves.....children are not taught the significance of hard work from their families.....encouraged to cheat their way to pass exams and get degrees....eventually these so called Sindhi educated youth are encouraged to look for some sort of paida geeree...in some government job...
2) Sindhi political leaders have never taught Sindhis the significance of co-existence and tolerence....in interior of Sindh they continue to terrorize non Sindhi populations and every now and then committ crimes against them....burn and loot their properties...even goods/passengers in transit are looted or burnt>>>
3) For last 25 years the industrial development in interior of Sindh is practically zero....and nobody in his right mind even thinks of putting up an industry in these areas due to past experiences of people....politicians continue to do their hate politics and instigate people to harm/terrorize non sindhis...
4) Most dangerous thing is if this rule of lawlessness and terror continues in interior Sindh there will be no industrial/business development in interior of Sindh for next 100 years....it really does not matter if Bhutto clan gets power and become rulers of Pakistan or not.....economic development has to be privately driven with condusive investment climate.....which is non existent in Sindh.
The only way out for Sindhis is to audit and change themselves.....stop looking at businesses as their enemies....stop burning industries.....develop tolerence in their attitudes....join main stream Pakistani nation as no ethnic community can progress in isolation....otherwise they will continue to remain the most backward community....
I am sorry brother if I hurt any of your feelings as a Sindhi.....but reality sometimes is very bitter>>>
Re: Sindh ji politics
many misconceptions I observed our BELOVED members have about Sindh.
Sindh??? bhai most people posting here are completely out of touch of realities in Pakistan, many only know Pakistan from the two trips they made there when they were 9/10 and 14/15.
I have worked in interior sindh (Tandoalah yar, nawabshah, hayderabad, sukker, larkana, mirpur khas, gothki, mathli and a few other places, almost all over sindh) and have a lot of sindhi friends.
Re: Sindh ji politics
I am not aware of Interior Sindh politics as which Palejo supports which Talpur, and if Chandios are friend of Jatois or if they are their enemy.....if that is what you want to discuss in this thread???
Strictly from economic and logical prospective interior Sindh is the most backward area in the country with the darkest future and in my opinion Sindhis themselves are responsible for their plight...
1) There is not a single significant business house in Pakistan belonging to Sindhi ethnic origin.....Sindhis do not educate themselves.....children are not taught the significance of hard work from their families.....encouraged to cheat their way to pass exams and get degrees....eventually these so called Sindhi educated youth are encouraged to look for some sort of paida geeree...in some government job...
Yes indeed very true! Their leadership is solely responsible for all this.
Re: Sindh ji politics
I am not aware of Interior Sindh politics as which Palejo supports which Talpur, and if Chandios are friend of Jatois or if they are their enemy.....if that is what you want to discuss in this thread???
Strictly from economic and logical prospective interior Sindh is the most backward area in the country with the darkest future and in my opinion Sindhis themselves are responsible for their plight...
1) There is not a single significant business house in Pakistan belonging to Sindhi ethnic origin.....Sindhis do not educate themselves.....children are not taught the significance of hard work from their families.....encouraged to cheat their way to pass exams and get degrees....eventually these so called Sindhi educated youth are encouraged to look for some sort of paida geeree...in some government job...
2) Sindhi political leaders have never taught Sindhis the significance of co-existintence and tolerence....in interior of Sindh they continue to terrorize non Sindhi populations and every now and then committ crimes against them....burn and loot their properties...even goods/passengers in transit are looted or burnt>>>
3) For last 25 years the industrial development in interior of Sindh is practically zero....and nobody in his right mind even thinks of putting up an industry in these areas due to past experiences of people....politicians continue to do their hate politics and instigate people to harm/terrorize non sindhis...
4) Most dangerous thing is if this rule of lawlessness and terror continues in interior Sindh there will be no industrial/business development in interior of Sindh for next 100 years....it really does not matter if Bhutto clan gets power and become rulers of Pakistan or not.....economic development has to be privately driven with condusive investment climate.....which is non existent in Sindh.
The only way out for Sindhis is to audit and change themselves.....stop looking at businesses as their enemies....stop burning industries.....develop tolerence in their attitudes....join main stream Pakistani nation as no ethnic community can progress in isolation....otherwise they will continue to remain the most backward community....
I am sorry brother if I hurt any of your feelings as a Sindhi.....but reality sometimes is very bitter>>>
An end to Feudalism in Sindh would help. Punjab is gradually gettng rid of this menace and has seen immense improvement.
Re: Sindh ji politics
Sindh??? bhai most people posting here are completely out of touch of realities in Pakistan, many only know Pakistan from the two trips they made there when they were 9/10 and 14/15.
Yes, very accurate statement about people on this site.
In regards to Sindhi people, I belive it is true that many of those who come from the interior do not do what it takes to make it.
However there is no doubt, that those who do, face discrimination and a 'glass ceiling'.
Re: Sindh ji politics
An end to Feudalism in Sindh would help. Punjab is gradually gettng rid of this menace and has seen immense improvement.
Aalsi....I think you are grossly mistaken here....the only thing people look for in an elected MNA in rural Punjab is his abilty to get their bradari people released from police if anybody gets arrested performing a crime....elections are all about gaining contol of local thana...and nothing else...
Re: Sindh ji politics
Sindh??? bhai most people posting here are completely out of touch of realities in Pakistan, many only know Pakistan from the two trips they made there when they were 9/10 and 14/15.
I have worked in interior sindh (Tandoalah yar, nawabshah, hayderabad, sukker, larkana, mirpur khas, gothki, mathli and a few other places, almost all over sindh) and have a lot of sindhi friends.
You have traveled more in the interior than I have. I would love to hear your take on latest events.
Re: Sindh ji politics
I've heard they're simple and nice people in nature. They do like their moziqui.
I think that the vehement statements made about sindhis earlier in this thread can be applied to other populations as well. I can tell you that some of the most backwards families I see in the area I live are actually Punjabis. Very few families are sending their kids off to colleges. The girls especially get shafted and married off. I'm sure that's tickling the tempers of some of the readers here, but hey if you can't take it, then don't dish it.
True there has been a grave level of backwardness in Interior Sindh. But as of late, last time I checked, more schools were being opened in Interior Sindh, although I have not followed up on it to see what the progress is.
The main problem in Sindh is the feudal lords. They do NOT let their people move forward. *Its really unbecoming to trash an entire ethnicity when most of them are being held as slaves by a handful of zamindaars. *
So, kindly cut the racism.
Re: Sindh ji politics
*Its really unbecoming to trash an entire ethnicity when most of them are being held as slaves by a handful of zamindaars. *
So, kindly cut the racism.
I agree. there is no need for political correctness but lets not trash an entire ethnicity, issues can be noted, jsut be a little more sensitive in what you state and whether any of these assertions are supported by facts. if stereotypical statements were made about karachites, punjabis or pakhtoons, people would not be happy, and just because we dont have many sindhis on this forum who will stand up against it does not mean we trash the entire sindhis ethnic population.
Re: Sindh ji politics
I am not aware of Interior Sindh politics as which Palejo supports which Talpur, and if Chandios are friend of Jatois or if they are their enemy.....if that is what you want to discuss in this thread???
Strictly from economic and logical perspective interior **Sindh is the most backward area in the country with the darkest future **and in my opinion Sindhis themselves are responsible for their plight...
You've started with exaggeration .... it is indeed backward but certainly not the most with darkest future. I'd say it's better compared to Balochistan and of course FATA :)
1) There is not a single significant business house in Pakistan belonging to Sindhi ethnic origin.....Sindhis do not educate themselves.....children are not taught the significance of hard work from their families.....encouraged to cheat their way to pass exams and get degrees....eventually these so called Sindhi educated youth are encouraged to look for some sort of paida geeree...in some government job...
Cheating and shortcut tactics is the problem with entire Pakistani nation, it's not just Sindhi alone. I can give you examples from universities in Punjab who copied research papers of other people and published in their name. One famous incident was of Bruce Schneier's paper:
"kalank brought on Pakistan's face"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz2eGP_tYP8
There are other incidents as well through which you'd know how students from other parts of Pakistan get degrees by cheating; so again it's a national problem, not just limited to Sindh.
2) Sindhi political leaders have never taught Sindhis the significance of co-existence and tolerence....in interior of Sindh they continue to terrorize non Sindhi populations and every now and then committ crimes against them....burn and loot their properties...even goods/passengers in transit are looted or burnt>>>
Sindh has more co-existence with various ethnicities than Punjab has. We have all kind of people: urdu-speaking, balochi, pakhtoon, panjabis etc. I haven't been to Punjab, but i believe there isn't much multi-ethnicities there compared to Sindh. As far as attacking non-Sindhis is concerned, i don't think it's that common as you sound it is. Incidents like BB's murder caused violence all over the country, though Sindh had much more than other places - obviously because she had much support in Sindh. But such incidents don't happen daily, so please don't exaggerate things.
Hatred crimes happen everywhere, even in US, Canada and Europe. Whenever a bomb blast happen anywhere, innocent muslims become the target of backlash. So if these developed educated nations have such people, then why expect such discipline from a backward illiterate Sindh??
3) For last 25 years the industrial development in interior of Sindh is practically zero....and nobody in his right mind even thinks of putting up an industry in these areas due to past experiences of people....politicians continue to do their hate politics and instigate people to harm/terrorize non sindhis...
I agree .... but industrial development is done based on other factors as well, such as access to sea-ports, transport facilities (specially air-transport), easy access to other industries (as one industry is usually dependent on others for some goods it needs) and other geographical reasons. It is naive to expect industries scattered all over a province. Industry area is usually at some parts of a region, and for Sindh most suitable location is Karachi and its surroundings. From where we give you most of the revenue for Punjab and federal govt.
Even in most developed countries like US, industries are not everywhere. It's in some states/provinces or either in certain parts of a state/province.
4) Most dangerous thing is if this rule of lawlessness and terror continues in interior Sindh there will be no industrial/business development in interior of Sindh for next 100 years....it really does not matter if Bhutto clan gets power and become rulers of Pakistan or not.....economic development has to be privately driven with condusive investment climate.....which is non existent in Sindh.
Lawlessness starts from Musharraf and his gang. This is the problem of entire nation. Terror?? ...again it's all over the country, Rawal-pindi, Sawat, Waziristan, Karachi etc. If you mean against other ethnicities, then mostly it is against Punjabis. The reasons are same as of the hatred by Balochis and Urdu-speaking for Punjabis. And unfortunately our politicians have fueled it for their interests. We really need a leadership that whould unite the entire nation of Pakistan.
For economic development, we need to excel in education as well as get rid of feudals/waderas. And i agree with your suggestion too.
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The only way out for Sindhis is to audit and change themselves.....stop looking at businesses as their enemies....stop burning industries.....develop tolerence in their attitudes....join main stream Pakistani nation as no ethnic community can progress in isolation....otherwise they will continue to remain the most backward community....
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agree with you ..... but this burning of industries after BB's murder happened mostly in Karachi, and we DO NOT know who exactly was behind that - we have many groups there. If you
know of previous incidents in which industries were burned in Sindh in the way you sound it, plz enlighten me. As far as backlash is concerned, it happens even in most civilized nations as well. Only way we can handle this is through educating people. For that, govt should increase budget for education, instead of increasing it for Army and Defense dept. These are the reason which cause anger and hatred.
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I am sorry brother if I hurt any of your feelings as a Sindhi.....but reality sometimes is very bitter>>>
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no worries :)
Re: Sindh ji politics
You've started with exaggeration .... it is indeed backward but certainly not the most with darkest future. I'd say it's better compared to Balochistan and of course FATA :)
Cheating and shortcut tactics is the problem with entire Pakistani nation, it's not just Sindhi alone. I can give you examples from universities in Punjab who copied research papers of other people and published in their name. One famous incident was of Bruce Schneier's paper:
"kalank brought on Pakistan's face" www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz2eGP_tYP8
There are other incidents as well through which you'd know how students from other parts of Pakistan get degrees by cheating; so again it's a national problem, not just limited to Sindh.
If you want to advocate political correctness....okay we can do that....but we can never identify the core of the problem....
I went to school in Karachi and I had mohajirs, memons, agha kahnis, bohris, punjabis, and sindhis as my classmates and what I am telling you this out of personal experience....although this problem of cheating is a national problem but students from Sindhi ethnic origin had this problem much more than other communities....and were often supported by families/elders in indulging such activities.....and believe me I am not telling you a lie....
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Sindh has more co-existence with various ethnicities than Punjab has. We have all kind of people: urdu-speaking, balochi, pakhtoon, panjabis etc. I haven't been to Punjab, but i believe there isn't much multi-ethnicities there compared to Sindh.
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Look if you do not hear these problems in Punjab doesn't mean there are no diverse ethnicities in Punjab....we have over one million urdu speaking population in Lahore alone....they are well integrated with local population.....Punjab also recieved a huge influx of mohajirs in 1947.....may be more than Sindh....a lot of them shifted from Panipat/Karnal.....who are mostly settled in rural areas and speak a distorted form of Urdu....Mayo biradari, Kazis, and many diverse abadgaars.....but there is never a conflict of ethnicities in Punjab....there is a huge Kashmiri and Pathan community also living here very peacefully...
Again Karachi and interior Sindh are different....Karachi is multi cultural with a higher degree of ethnic tolerence....interior Sindh is different...
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As far as attacking non-Sindhis is concerned, i don't think it's that common as you sound it is. Incidents like BB's murder caused violence all over the country, though Sindh had much more than other places - obviously because she had much support in Sindh. But such incidents don't happen daily, so please don't exaggerate things.
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Again wrong my friend....this problem did not start with the murder of BB....it has a very long history in Sindh.....and it is very common for a very long time...
It all started with Bhutto in early seventies who in order to consolidate his vote bank in rural Sindh told his Sindhi community that Mohajirs and Punjabis are responsible for their plight....introduced quota system and started recruiting Sindhis without looking in to merit....before this there was never a problem of ethnicities in Sindh...
Mohajirs started MQM in mid eighties as a reaction against this hate politics played by Bhutto....Altaf Hussain simply exploited this reactionary feelings of Mohajir community...
In rural Sindh non Sindhis have faced kidnappings, all sort of crimes, bhattas, and every sort of racial hatred for a very long time often supported by local administration.....has it occurred to you why people used to put industries in Kotri, Nooriabad etc till mid eighties and why in last 25 years not even a single industrial unit was put up in interior Sind....I am personally aware of badmashis comitted by Palaries in Nooriabad area against people who put industries there....and administration used to support them....you can not imagine the number of kidnappings done by these goons...
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agree with you ..... but this burning of industries after BB's murder happened mostly in Karachi, and we DO NOT know who exactly was behind that - we have many groups there. If you
know of previous incidents in which industries were burned in Sindh in the way you sound it, plz enlighten me. As far as backlash is concerned, it happens even in most civilized nations as well. Only way we can handle this is through educating people. For that, govt should increase budget for education, instead of increasing it for Army and Defense dept. These are the reason which cause anger and hatred.
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Again wrong my friend....Do you know there are more than 2000 trucks lying burnt today in interior of Sind....22 trains turned to ashes....the number of industries burnt in interior of Sind is much greater than Karachi....even Clariant factory in Jamshoro is burnt....Indus Dyeing in Hyderabad also got burnt....in Karachi also mostly the industries near some Sindhi goth got burnt by these mobs.... and not to mention thousands of houses burnt down....again we can all become politically correct without pointing to real problem.....ethnic problem is a reality....you want to admit it or not....doesn't matter....
In his speech Musharraf gave a figure of 100 billion rupees of assets burnt down....I can bet if there is a probe 99% of these assets belonged to non sindhis....if they were so hurt on the murder of BB....why were they so selective in burning non sindhi assets....and then you want me to be politically correct in not mentioning this severe ethnic problem...
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no worries :)
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Thanks....
The idea of this post is not to hurt Sindhi brothers....it is only to tell them who their real enemy is...they think for last so many years that Punjabis and Mohajirs are their enemies....if Punjabis and Mohajirs put industies in thier areas they are their friends.....their real enemy is the mindset which they have adopted for last many years....they are simply exploited and are being used by their own politicians.....and if they do not come out of this negative mind frame....Sindhis themselves will suffer the most...
Re: Sindh ji politics
As long as you agree that cheating problem is all over the country but more in Sindh then i agree too, even though we don’t have proper statistics for all parts of the country. But, anyway, no matter it is lesser or more than any other parts of country, it is still a disaster. I consider education our most critical problem, and because of that, Sindhi people have many ‘jahil’ trends in them.
If you re-read my post, my statement was " Sindh has more co-existence with various ethnicities than Punjab has." I did not mean there are no diverse ethnicities in Punjab, but i meant in terms of quantities. And here are the stats (based on Mother-Tongue population %) about what i was trying to say:
Punjab | __ 4.51 __ 75.23 ___ 0.13 ___ 1.16 ____ 0.66 ____ 17.36 ___ 0.95
Sindh ..| __ 21.05 __ 6.99 ___ 59.73 ___ 4.19 ____ 2.11 ____ 1.00 ____ 4.93
Source:
Ministry of Economic Affairs and Statistics, Pakistan - based on 1998 Census
http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/statistics.html
Karachi has higher degree of ethnic tolerence??..i do not agree with that. Karachi has seen the highest ethnic troubles than any other part of the country. You are forgetting thousands of deaths of Urdu speaking, pakhtoons, punjabis, and sindhis. It’s huge topic, there would already be separate threads on it.
Yeah agree, he did not provide Sindhis with a long-term solution to their problems but a short-term controversial quota system and damaged merit system.
ya, i feel for urdu speaking of that time … our history has many terrible chapters.
We have this ‘daaku’ culture because of feudals/waderas. They nurture their goons, make money from ransom on kidnappings, get these criminals released whenever they are caught by police. They kidnap Sindhi people as well, not just non-sindhis. Also, different casts/qabeelas have enmity with each other and they use these goons against each other. I consider feudalism 2nd most critical problem after illiteracy.
I hate this crazy self-destruction nature of our people. Be it murder of some leader, or Danish Cartoons issue, our people will burn and destroy properties of their own countrymen. I highly condemn whatever and wherever this backlash happened after bhutto’s murder.
A corrections … it was 22 ENGINES of trains burned to ashes.
Destruction done in Karachi was from several areas including clifton & defense, not just in sindhi dominant places. And i am sure, many criminal groups took advantage of the situation. Don’t just blame everything was done by Sindhis; PPP has wide support in all ethnicities of Pakistan including pakhtoons, balochs and punjab.
But i myself have never been a ppp supporter.
That is just your baseless accusation … 12+ banks were looted, several police stations, post offices, 40 railway stations, 10+ Election Commission Offices, Sindh Text Board Office, Sindh Univ Library, and several other govt offices were burned. How the hell you claim that 99% would be the damage done to non-Sindhis? How can you categorize above places as non-Sindhi property? … majority it’s govt properties. If you 'd read news details, from nowhere it makes sense that all this was done with such a PLANNING that 99% damage or even most of the damage was targeted to non-Sindhis.
Daily Jang: Urdu News - Latest Breaking News update Pakistan - jang.com.pk
Daily Jang: Urdu News - Latest Breaking News update Pakistan - jang.com.pk
I see here a biased view of yours. In my replies, i am trying to tell you that some of your points are exaggerated, or may be misinformation that you might have got from somewhere.
i agree with you.
