Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

Society Religion & Philosophy
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So i was wondering…

Sunni people say…everyone must follow one of the four madhabs or imams…

I want to know…what is the sin/punishment for a person who doesn’t follow one of the imams?

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

I guess nothing ... You dont need to be in a Taqleed ...

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

Peace NomiCA

The reason behind following a madhab is to minimise the risk of being held accountable for taking decisions based on our weaknesses, biases and lack of true wisdom. So the sin/punishment for a person who does not have the "safety net" of fellowship or tutelage of a scholar has to be prepared to answer for the decisions he makes which are more likely to be wrong.

Following a madhab as a "must" is really not that ... but one would be foolish not to take advantage of scholarly guidance and subject oneself to greater risk and if everyone did this then the Ummah would be even more disunited. Having said that those schools who do have taqlid still accept ghair muqalid ... albeit some do so begrudgingly.

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

thanks psyah....

correct me if i am wrong........ there is a risk of making worng decisions....but no sin/punishment??

but if someone doesn't follow one specific madhab........although his decisions are based on the opinions of scholars.....but not following a strictly single madhab.......

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

as-salaamu alaykum


that's fine insha'Allah...there's nothing in the Qur'an or sunnah which would indicate that it's wajib upon everyone to follow one of the four mathahab. Those who propagate this are simply mistaken in that regard. The laymen are simply instructed by the Qur'an to ask those who have knowledge. Of course, the laymen shouldn't go around picking & choosing according to his desires. Or ask those who are not scholars or known for having deviant beliefs and odd views. On other side, given the modern day circumstances and problems (i.e., many people consider anyone who comes on TV or gives fiery lectures or active in dawah to be a scholar), many scholars/students of knowledge say that it's better/safe if you seek fatawa from a mufti belonging to a specific math-hab or just ask the mufti to give you fatwa/opinion of a specific math-hab. This doesn't mean that you have to limit yourself to one math-hab. Besides, 99% of muftis now days will be following one of the mathahab anyway.

Honestly, the whole thing about following math-hab shouldn't even concern the laymen. The laymen don't have a math-hab; the math-hab of a laymen is math-hab of his mufti(s)! Within usool al-fiqh following a math-hab is a lot more than just asking a scholar who happens to be from a math-hab or being raised up in accordance with fiqh from a certain math-hab. For example, I take fatwas from hanabli and shafi scholars and 99% of my daily fiqh is based upon hanabli math-hab; however, this doesn't make me a hanabli.

WaAllahu A'lam

PS: there's not such thing as ghayr muqalid - everyone who is not a mujtahid is a muqalid of someone one way or the other. Some people are just too stubborn to realize it.

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid…

:jazak:

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid…

In the end everyone is responsible for their own actions.
Quran has said it in many places.
You cannot use taqleed as an excuse on the day of judgement.

Allah (S.W.T.) says in surat Al-Isra’, (Verse 15), what can be translated as, “Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another’s burden…” Allah also says in surat Fussilat, (Verse 46), what can be translated as, “Whosoever does righteous good deed it is for (the benefit of) his ownself, and whosoever does evil, it is against his ownself, and your Lord is not at all unjust to (His) slaves.” Allah also says in surat Fatir, (Verse 18), what can be translated as, “And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden, and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be lifted even though he be near of kin…”
Allah (S.W.T.) will account the people one person at a time, everyone for what he has done within the limits of his duty and ability. And also the number of negligent and carefree people will not reduce the burden of his responsibility, so it is not a valid excuse for one to join them in this life. Allah (S.W.T.) says in surat Mariam, (Verse 95), what can be translated as, “And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).”

In this clarity the Qur’an views and explains the principle of individual responsibility, where everyone is solely responsible for his attributes and liabilities, and after all this, Allah leaves you free to choose the way you want to live but don’t forget the final destination and the result of that particular path you take, as Allah (S.W.T.) swear in the Qur’an in surat Al-Mudathir, (Verses 32-38), what can be translated as, “Nay, and by the moon, And by the night when it withdraws, And by the dawn when it brightens, Verily, it is but one of the greatest calamities. A warning to mankind, To any of you that chooses to go forward (by doing righteous deeds), or to remain behind (by committing sins), Every person is beheld (accountable) on his own deeds.”

Source for some of this post is here.

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid…

:jazak:

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

ok..so if i am following you correctly......what you said was......that it doesn't matter whether one follows a particular madhab only or not.......right??

for example....

if there are 4 different opinions/solutions to an issue.....lets say A,B,C and D......and all four are considered EQUALLY correct/legitimate/authentic........ i can chose any solution out of the 4??

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

Peace NomiCA

It's more like this:

Say there are various issues 1, 2, 3 , 4, etc and each of these issues are dealt with by opinions A, B, C, D, E, where letters are the opinion of the imam or the followers of the iman of a given madhab, Except E - which is an other than the four madhabs, A,B, C and D.

If a person uses opinion A to answer issue 1 let's call that A1, and he uses opinion C to answer issue 2 we call that C2 and so on ... if a person uses A to answer issue 1 and 2 then we write A(1,2) and if he uses opinion D to answer 1, 2 and 3, we write D(1,2,3).

Therefore:

A(1,2,3,4, +) = Follower of a madhab (i.e. where all issues are referred to the opinion of one school of thought denoted by the plus + sign)

Or we can have A1, B2, C3, D4 = Follower who is not madhab specific - Mirch says he is like this ... LOL ... but essentially this is the Salafi model.

E(1,2,3,4 +) = Rejector of tradition and hadith and sciences of fiqh

A(1,2,3) E5 = Mostly orientated to a madhab with some personal deficiencies in true taqlid.

A(1,2,3) B5 = Mostly orientated to a given madhab with preference of resolution of some matters in accordance with another madhab. (Also Salafi).

Hence Madhabis are puritan followers of their own scholars and technically Salafis are not, but as time moves on the "Salafis" are beginning to acquire similar traits anyway. I remember many years back lots of scholars were denounced by Salafi brothers I know and they would even go to the extent of arguing against taqlid ... and today we see a different picture because through time people who hold certain opinions have becomes "scholars" over the other people who are "salafi" inclined.

(Note: When I say Salafi - I mean those people who call themselves Salafi and attribute their way as Salafiyya).

In time I presume they will only be taking sources from their own "Salafi" scholars if they are already not doing that. Essentially they have become a 5th madhab which in effect is "new" or "modern", although they argue they are the most authentic and take the oldest sources ... however as a movement they are the "newest" ... Perhaps the greatest difference between the 4 madhabs and the Salafis is that they have a far greater preference on textual traditions over oral traditions, whereas the other madhahib will include oral traditions in their works due to the nature of their tutelage.

Also the 4 madhab will accept Sufi practices and the Salafis will not ... It is the opinion of pro-Sufi Sunnis that tassawuf is part and parcel of being a Sunni whereas the Salafis separate being a Sunni from being a person who is Sufi. To make things interesting there are groups of Sufis who do not relate to Shari'a and reject either through re-interpretation or ignorance the essential 5 pillars of Islam and hence call themselves Sufi yet are not even Muslim. It is often these who are used to justify that Sufi practices are deviancy, whereas this is not the case ...

To cater for spiritual matters those who are not affiliated to a traditional Sufi order resort to tazkiya related texts and similar text that expound the matters of ihsan.

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

It is often seen that the two hanafi sub-madhab groups Barelviya and Deobandiya accuse each other of the dichotomy across the bid'a vs ghair-muqalid axis.

Being raised from a Deobandi background and having recently studied with Barelviya inclined I see that Barelvi claims of Deobandis being ghair-muqalid are illfounded and not true and likewise the claims of the Deobandis that Barelvis are bidatees are also untrue.

However there are indeed extremes within the Barelvis and Deobandis who justify the accusations. The less tolerant Deobandis will indeed be against taqlid and in fact will shun sufi tariqas and likewise the staunch Barelvis will take on many innovations that are actually against the Barelvi core teachings.

I am in a position where I reject the extreme forms of both Barelivs and Deobandis and try to take an approach where there is least disagreement between these two ... Consequently there are also other forms of hanafi schools across Egypt, Turkey and Syria and learning these in context will be interesting too.

Will I be pseudo-Salafi if I do this? I don't know ... LOL

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

Thanks psyah...for explanation of the various categories...i did have some idea about that too...

What i wanted to know was......... are salafi (as you call them) wrong due to their approach of direct textual references?? (btw...since they are refering to someone else's collection of hadith..i think they do place some reliance on hadith collectors....so can't be strictly said that they are against the system of hadith etc??? ))

and if someone as you say is...a pseudo-salafi or full salafi...... do we have any source or Fatwa or judgement which would classify them as being in the wrong??

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

^Peace NomiCA

When we talk at this level I would be loathe to deem any one way as wrong, but I have a preference and would deem others deficient which is the reason why I do not follow them ... The major criticism of Salafi rulings are that they reject too many ahadith and hence have a very small nucleus of hadith to work with. As intolerant they are with hadith so too they seem to be with other groups, but this is beginning to change. They have a tendency of focussing on "refutations" and "proving others wrong" and their most similar group "Ahl-al-hadith" commonly called "Wahabis" teach "refutations" as part of their Islamic learning. I might hasten to add this is not a practice that is encouraged by scholars of traditional schools and argumentation is forbidden to the awam.

Because they extrude rulings from authentic hadith they are on the whole correct and we cannot deem them wrong, they are often seen as people who downplay the role of Muhammad (SAW) a similar blame cast on Deobandis by the Barelvis. Also a result of the smaller selection of ahadith they often arrive at harsher and more restricted ijtehad resolutions.

Personally I have seen that bid'a itself is not well defined by them and if they attempt to define bid'a then there are complications ... they reject that any innovation can be beneficial and good.

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....

^thanks

Interestingly.....i have seen a lot of 'barailvi' people doing that stuff too.......roughly 90% of their time during any lecture/speech/khutba.............is focused around justifying/proving/promoting the topics which identify them as separate from others......

I haven't attended any 'salafi' mosque btw....because they are fewer than barailvi ones nowadays..

btw...what do you mean by downlplaying the role of Prophet SAW???

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....


yes and I also said that laymen don't belong to any particular math-hab per say even though they claim it. I gave the example of myself, me following hanabli opinions doesn't make me a hanabli or brother pysch following opinions of hanafi math-hab doesn't make him a hanafi. Yes, people do claim such but it is an incorrect speech if implied in specific sense. To be a hanafi or hanabli, one needs to be well rooted in the usool & fiqh of that math-hab. However, one can use the term hanabli, for instance, to imply that he is a sunni.


such a case will never arise if you actually ask a mufti; a mufti is not supposed to bombard you with different opinions. This will happen only when you seek fatawas from internet "muftis", who are quick to shove down their views on others. Remember, however, though that this is only regarding fiqh and one is not allowed to follow the slips of scholars or shadd opinions.

If you do ask a mufti and he gives you two opinions then you can make tarjeeh - this is a permissible tarjeeh. Or if your heart is not content with what one mufti said then you can ask another mufti. Beware of following the desires though! Let me paste this for you, it helped me few years ago:


He should chose a madhab to study, not due to usul, but due to fiqh itself. Usul, you can pretty much study from any madhabs.

[quote]
People say that there are "valid" opinions, such as the ones stated above. How do we know what is a valid opinion and does it not have to have authentic evidence behind it?
[/quote]
There are some opinions that not only the scholars criticised, but actually fiercely attacked, such as those who allow the drinking of wine, riba al-fadhl, music, etc. These are the opinions a person should stay away from. These are called the genuine errors, or slips of the scholars.

[QUOTE]
Im right in thinking arent I , that if a jahil, non scholar comes to you nad says 'here this hadeeth is sahih follow it' that he should not be followed, after all, most of these people dont even know arabic and have never checked one hadeeth isnad right?
[/QUOTE]
Depends. If the issue is of difference of opinion, and you do not know which of the opinion is or is not right, then yes, you can conveniently say to the brother: ‘thank you’, and move on.

But if you know of no difference over an opinion, but it is in fact something very new to you; for instance, you do not know whether or not to drink while standing up, and someone tells you of a hadeeth, then you should act on the hadeeth.

Your excuse for not acting on the hadeeth is only when you know that there exists another opinion, and therefore, the issue involves more than just a hadeeth.

[QUOTE]
What now if you hear a scholar give you a hadeeth which is contrary to a opinion of what your scholar said.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t forget the golden rule of the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam: Ask your heart, even if they give you fatwa after a fatwa.

If you feel in your heart that the scholar who quoted to you the hadeeth has a stronger argument, then you should follow his fatwa. If, for some reason, you do not trust him with respect to his knowledge of hadeeth and fiqh, then you should simply put your trust in the scholar you think is more knowledge and has more taqwa.

[QUOTE]
OR do you take that hadeeth, and take it to sheikh Abdullah, and see what he has to say on it?

What if Sh Abdullah has now reply to the hadeeth, should you follow the other scholar?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, fatwa is not binding upon a person, so you can easily go to the other Shaykh and mention to him the hadeeth.

If the Shaykh thinks you are intellectually able to handle a fiqhi discussion, then he may decide to discuss with you. Otherwise, he is under no obligation to give you a detailed response, and likewise, you are under no obligation to follow all of his fatwas. You follow the fatwa of them one you feel your heart is settled on.

The bottom line is, so long as you have done your job – i.e. asked a qualified mufti, you are free in the sight of Allah. (meaning, in Allah’s judgement, not that Allah does NOT have a sight!)

[QUOTE]
I find it preferable to follow one Imaam, rather then going to many, I like to stick to hanbali fiqh...is there anythingw rong with that? After all I find them more precise and if I follow many opinions, then I get confused.
[/QUOTE]
There is nothing wrong with that, but you will make your life difficult for no reason. Imagine, if you are travelling from city to city, and you have decided to stick to the hanbali madhab, what if you cannot locate a Hanbali mufti? What would you do? Why go down that wrote anyway, when your obligation is simpler, just ask any mufti.

[QUOTE]
If now we must follow scholars irrespective of their madhab, then in the UK, where we have so many schools, wouldn't that lead to catastrophy? so in one instance, you ask for the ruling about touching a woman, and then one scholar gives you a hanafi opinion, then on another instance, you ask about where to pray with your hands, so the shafii scholar says, pray on your chest.
[/QUOTE]
So following Hanafi opinion with respect to touching a woman, and shafi’i opinion with respect to placing the hands between your chest and the navel (and not on the chest), would cause catastrophe? How is that?

[/quote]

I hope this helps you further - there's more but I can't get the website to be working right now so I'll post them later, insha'Allah

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Re: Sin/Punishment for Ghair-e-Muqallid.....


my brother, first, your definition of salafi term is quite narrowed. At the end of the day it's also covering the hanabilah, those who stick to aqeedah of the salaf but don't follow the watered down fiqh of these "salafis". You should have use the term ghayr muqalid or something which is more common to define that group of people.

Secondly, as much as I hate their methodology and having spent time with them this is first time I heard that they actually teach refutations! Where did you get this from? Could you please give some references to their teaching curriculum which would highlight your claim?


1 - just to clear, I'm sure you are talking about innovation in the deen 2 - my brother, you're influenced by sufi-ashari methodology so it's not surprise that hanabli definition of bid'a doesn't sit well with you. One of the reasons is that you guys mix up the linguistic definition of the bid'a with sharee definition of the bid'a.

From the words of Imam ibn Rajab al-hanabli (rahimahullah):

[QUOTE]
So his saying (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam) that "every innovation is misguidance" is from the comprehensive, concise words from which no matter (of innovation) [introduced in the religion] escapes from, and it is a mighty foundation from the foundations of the religion. It resembles his saying (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam), "Whoever introduced into this affair of ours that which does not belong to it will have it rejected." Hence, everyone who introduced something and ascribed it to the religion and it does not have any foundation in the religion to which it returns back to, then it is misguidance and the religion is free of it, irrespective of whether it is in the matters of belief, or actions or outward and inward statements. As for what occurs in the speech of some of the Salaf of considering some of the innovations to be good, then that is with respect to innovations with the linguistic meaning, not the Shariah meaning and from [the examples of that] is the saying of Umar (radiallaahu anhu) when he gathered the people together for praying in Ramadan behind a single imaam in the mosque
[/QUOTE]

may Allah guide us all and keep us on haqq, ameen