You just don’t get it. Do you?
Whatever effort you put to close the sect related threads and arguments. It will keep popping up.
In fact it is the life and soul of this forum. Whatever you do, it will not stop.
You can’t touch it. It will be in vain.
If you are so desperate, only way is to close the forum altogether.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smokin.gif
Belief is not what mind possesses, it is what possesses the mind!
Simple question to moderators/admins<<
Simple questions are no fun. Koi mushkil sawal pocho!
Ok, as you wish:
Where does the universe end and what is beyond that?
Why does Surah Fateha is addressed to Allah, while these are Allah’s words? If it is a pray taught to man why it does does not have word “Qul” ot “Read” in front of it?
need more mushkil sawalz?
Hope it helps.
Maybe there might be a way to block out only the users who are breaking the rules of any particular forum.
But that will be a nightmare for the Mods as their judgment might be questioned on a personal level …
- Where does the universe end and what is beyond that?<<<<
Is the question asked in a religious, Quran’s context… ? Or a classical scientific mathematical perspective? Or neither? Turely a hard one though …
- Why does Surah Fateha is addressed to Allah, while these are Allah’s words? If it is a pray taught to man why it does does not have word “Qul” ot “Read” in front of it?<<<<
The parents tell their children how to behave if they want to please them and how to ask something if they really want to have it! Don’t they? Then why can’t Allah tell His children, His creation, how to ask Him, How to please Him??
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I believe in “DUA” extensively and what can be a better then the DUA taught by Allah Himself!! Indeed, so Great & Kind is He!!!
P.s: But why am I answing … I am not a Mod
Ahmedjee, you or anybody else is most welcome to answer. That keeps the forum interesting and worth visiting. If there is no conflict, there is no fun, unlike what mods think.
Any way,
Ist question needs answer from both religious and scientific perspective and none have an answer. Although it is easy to say that "Allah knows best!", but it does not really satisfy the seeker of knowledge.
From scientific view no one knows but at least they admit.
I agree that Surah Fateha is a "Dua" or prayer tought by Allah to humans but why it does not have words "Say" or "Qul" in front of it like in many other "Surahs", e.g. " Four Quls" ??? Is it missing??
[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited March 16, 2001).]
Yes… this is good. Keep coming up with questions like this. Helps stimulate our resident scholars on this forum
>>>>Ist question needs answer from both religious and scientific perspective and none have an answer. Although it is easy to say that “Allah knows best!”, but it does not really satisfy the seeker of knowledge.
From scientific view no one knows but at least they admit.<<<<
The book “Revelation, Rationality Knowledge & Truth” addresses this question in detail, from both religious & scientific perspective. I will quote you some from that book … (am at work right now, and the book is at home)
If you study the classical Mathematics, which deals with higher dimensions, countable & uncountable infinity and so forth … they talk about the limits of the universe. Of course they admit, their findings are theoretical and can be proved wrong later on. From what I have understood so far, the mathematicians take universe as an infinity, and infinity as a globe, where the +ve infinity eventually meets the -ve one. My math Prof. explained as if you see the cursor on the screen going off at right end but reappearing from the left … or if you start walking on the earth in opposite directions, though you are moving away from the other object, but eventually you will get to him again from the other side …
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?? Yeah me too ..
Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …
>>>>I agree that Surah Fateha is a “Dua” or prayer tought by Allah to humans but why it does not have words “Say” or “Qul” in front of it like in many other “Surahs”, e.g. " Four Quls" ??? Is it missing??<<<<
Quran is filled with prayers, not all of them start with “Qul”. (I can give you refrences) Maybe you should ask why not all of them start with Qul. But why should they?
Allah preserved the prayers of great Prophets in Quran for the benefit of the generations to come next! He is The author, he may choose as He pleases!
Surat Al-Fatiah is considered the Umm al-Qur’an and its significant cannot be ignored. It was even Prophesized in the New Testement (Rev. 10 :1-2) For more information please visit Sural Al-Fatiah, An Introduction
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited March 17, 2001).]
Good try, Ahmedjee. Thanks.
Can you give more references to other verses which does not start with Qul and are prayers. I would pose same question to each of them.
They all should start by word "Qul" grammatically. Since Quran is Allah's words, it should always be addressed from Allah to man and not vice versa.
As I look for references, would you please elaborate on your grammatical back ground in Arabic and study of Quran. Also on the particular claim that they all should start with a “Qul”
Peace!
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Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …
I dont claim any of the above.
It is not a claim but an inquisitive mind asking about the way people are addressed as per my limited knowledge of English and Urdu grammar.
If you don't think I am worth discussing fine points. That's OK. No offense.
Belief is not what mind possesses, it is what possesses the mind!
First, I never said, you were not worth discussing … am I not answering to all the question “to my best knowledge” Please do ask as many questions as you can ..
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I am not grammatical linguist either, so cannot answer your question grammatically. But a logical answer is as follows:
References: 2:126-129, 202, 251, 285-287
3: 8/9, 16/17, 27/28, 53/54, 147/148
The above are only a few … just for you to ponder on. None of them start with QUL.
The way I justify it to myself is that in Surah Al-Fatihah talks of the Greatness of Allah in the first few verses and all of them are jewels! Verses 1–4, And if understood, its natural that a confession of submission to Him and His bounty come from our hearts, (Verses 5-7)
You are more than welcome to disagree if you’re in your heart the question is still unanswered! Maybe others in this forum can shed some more light on this …
As per Admin/Mods closing threads, I think they do it when the threads get into personal attacks! Not because Guppies don’t agree with each other
I wish I knew someone who knew the correct answer to this question…
With respect to the teachings of Islam:
Allah revealed His book, not to teach mankind regarding issues which were not necessary to be taught for success in the ultimate life in the hereafter. The only issues covered in the Qur’an are basically those which are in some way pertinent in understanding the basic purpose of life, and the method of success in the hereafter.
Allah gave mankind the faculty of reason and intellect. Any thing that man is capable of determining himself is not covered in the Qur’an. The Qur’an only tells man of things which he is either incapable of determining (and which are also pertinent with success in the hereafter) or which he (man) might be able to determine on his own, but he is prone to be caught up in his personal biasis and prejudices and thus prone to go astray regarding these issues.
Obviously, the issue regarding the ‘end’ of, and ‘beyond’, the universe is not necessary to be known for success in the hereafter and nor is it an issue where mankind is prone to be caught up in their personal biasis and prejudices. Thus, it is not covered in the Qur’an.
If I am not entirely wrong, I recall that you asked this question some time ago in the following thread:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/002233.html
You had asked:
I had answered:
Analyze it, this is not an issue to do with grammer.
Surah Al-Faatihah, as you know, is recited during prayers during the beginning of Qiyaam. It is also placed at the beginning of the Qur’an. The cited objection regarding the inclusion of Surah Al-Faatihah is due to a slight misconception of its role. As Eastern Analog has kindly demonstrated above, the Surah is actually a supplication by man to God. The whole remainder of the Qur’an is actually a response to that supplication. This is why Surah Al-Faatihah is placed at the beginning of the Qur’an itself. Whenever you recite the Qur’an, it is not a one way communication. Effectively, you are engaging in a conversation with The Almighty. It is a two way dialogue.
An example may make this more clear. As you know, it is obligatory to recite Surah Al-Faatihah during prayers. When you recite the Qur’an, for example during Sala’h, it signifies a dialogue between man and God, rather than a one-way communication. During the Qiyaam, it is quite evident that we recite Surah Al-Faatihah as a supplication to God for our guidance to the straight path. The recitation of the Qur’an that follows the recitation of Surah Al-Faatihah is not a continuation of our supplication for guidance but, on the contrary, a response to it. This recitation of a part of the Qur’an, as a response to our supplication for guidance to the path of eternal success, signifies the Islamic belief that, with the advent of the last Prophet (pbuh), the Qur’an is the only reliable path to eternal success and salvation. This explanation should also explain the recitation of Surahs like Surah Al-Ikhlaas, which are addressed not to God, but to man in response to his supplication for guidance. This is why the beginning of Surah Al-Ikhlaas, begins with the word “Say…” in response to the supplication of Surah Al-Faatihah.
But that is not to say I’m not wrong.
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But I hope this will help.
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited March 19, 2001).]
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[This message has been edited by Admin (edited April 13, 2001).]
Yeah, he's right...God taught Muhammad(sm) al-Fatiha as a supplication of man to God. Qur'an is its answer, and thats precisely why the first part starts from Alif Lam Mim.
As for Duas within Qur'an, either they start with Qul, or those come as a part of a context or story. In effect, what goes on is that this happened and that happened and then some messenger turned to God and follows the Dua.
For instance, Satan caused Adam to deflect from going near the tree, and God sent him down. Adam repented using the words "Rabbana Zalmna Anfusana...". So it does not have a Qul, because it is being said about Adam, not directly to the listener; who learns this as a result of Sunnah of the prophet.
Yes, I have objection to locking the discussion boards. If there are no discussions, why are we here? I posted a separate message for that.
Omer
oiqbal,
There many things which define a discussion, of which mudslinging, cursing, defaming another’s belief are not.
For this specific case, you can refer to this thread, http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/002239.html
analyZe bhaI
whatever u quoted in that thread about shia’z was good MAshallah.
The website works good.
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. Just forget about shia’z and dont even care about them. You did your part and if they dont wanna listen and act on the truth, then its up to Allah.
These shia in their open discussion had even started misbehaving, for example gubber singh. For them just recite this Ayah of Quran. Surah Qassas.
And when they hear idle talk they turn aside from it and say: We shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; peace be on you, we do not desire the ignorant.
“Those who believed (in the Oneness of Allaah — Islamic Monotheism), and whose hearts find rest in the remembrance of Allaah verily, in the remembrance of Allaah do hearts find rest
[al-Ra’d 13:28]