So many to condemn the overthrowing of Saddam because innocent Iraqis are being hurt, yet they were silent while Saddam and his torturous regime ruled over the Iraqis for decades. Shame on you who have abandon the Iraqis until now because it serves your purpose of condemning America! Shame on you for being silent until now, shame on you!
hey utd.. do you know of any other dictators in the world right now who may be committing worse crimes, or would you suddenly feel the need to liberate their citizens when the state propaganda machine turns it's guns towards them?
PA, a side effect, that's what I've said again and again what this liberation of Iraq is. A positive side effect that the administration took into account. Condemn this side effect if you wish but it's going to happen.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
hey utd.. do you know of any other dictators in the world right now who may be committing worse crimes, or would you suddenly feel the need to liberate their citizens when the state propaganda machine turns it's guns towards them?
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Or would you suddenly become their advocate when the US does take action? Let's go ahead and bemoan the condition of these innocents right now instead of hypocritically waiting until something is being done about it.
Arab nationalism is at it's highest.. the conquest of Baghdad will only strengthen the bonds between the always quibbling Arabs... but sure, let's wait for the "side effects" to appear.. we can always revisit the thread and share a laugh at how naive one of us has been throughout.
Seminole, my contempt for the Saudi regime in particular and Gulf Arabs in general is no secret... but i'd never advocate bombarding them in order to 'liberate' them from their treacherous rulers.
Why are most pro-war people so linear in their thinking? Supporting innocent Iraqi's doesn't mean support for Saddam but rather support for IRAQ.. just like supporting our troops means bringing them back home safely and not throwing them in ill planned and needless wars and cheerleading from a safe distance.
It comes as no great surprise to me that the non-Iraqis who bemoan most the "senseless deaths" of Iraqi civilians at the hands of the coalition forces have such a difficult time accepting the joy and celebration of the living Iraqis at their liberation. These scenes will be played out more and more as the Iraqi people realize that Saddam and his regime are really and truly gone.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Seminole, my contempt for the Saudi regime in particular and Gulf Arabs in general is no secret... but i'd never advocate bombarding them in order to 'liberate' them from their treacherous rulers.
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I wouldn't advocate American bombing of any country to liberate them either, but we all know that isn't the reason for the bombing of Iraq
Why aren't more threads opened up about these despotic regimes? Why don't "Westernized" Muslims passionately advocate change for these poor, oppressed folks instead of trying to change the US, whose human rights record, fairness, justice and freedoms far surpass anything that has EVER existed in the ME? Why isn't there a thread opened about the murdered woman and children in the Phillipines by Muslim extremists? Why isn't there a codmenation against the Iranian government for sentencing people to death for free speech? Why aren't there any threads on the harrassment, imprisonment and torture of Chinese Muslims? Why aren't people showing their disgust for the murder, torutre, imprisonment, rape and displacement of Iraqi citizens by Hussein? Why aren't Pakistanis abroad opening up threads on what the Pakistani government can do to stop the influence of madrassas, military dictators and ignorant mullahs?
In short, where is the anger, compassion and advocacy for the 1 billion plus Muslims that are suffering under Muslim and other non-US governments? There is so much room for improvement for the suffering ummah around thet world, but it seems that self-righteousnes, bias or ignorance prevents most posters here from advocating change for these suffering people (or God forbid hold any of these governments responsible). Instead all the anger is focused on the US, where Muslims enjoy more freedom and success than anywhere else in the world.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
....Instead all the anger is focused on the US, where Muslims enjoy more freedom and success than anywhere else in the world.
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May be because no Muslim country in the world claims to be a Global Cop? May be because no Muslim country boasts to be perfect in HR records? There are many more reasons. Above all, right now US is aggressor against yet another Muslim country.
Seminole,
Muslim countries have never claimed to be bastions of equal rights and democracy.. but why is the 'biggest democracy in the world' still actively trading and maintaining relations with these brutal regimes?
Why does the US put sanctions on countries like Iraq but buys oil from Saudi Arabia?
Why does the US warn Pakistan of it's human rights violations but bribes Egypt which has jails stuffed with political opponents?
Why do Americans consider themselves upright, moral and just and yet defend the atrocities done by Israel and never question their tax dollars spent towards furthering the illegal occupation?
If the 'Ummah' is perceived to be impotent towards the atrocities committed by Muslims over Muslims and all anger gravitates towards the US, there is a reason; the ummah considers the US to be responsible for these regimes.. for arming them, strengthening them, trading with them. They consider the US complicit in the reign of terror and oppression their regimes have inflicted on them for decades.
Let's both start together.. I condemn the Muslims for supressing Muslims and you ask your government to withdraw support immediately for the same despots we both agree should go.... but please just resist any urges to "liberate" by bombing them to smithereens.
:k: PA
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Let's both start together.. I condemn the Muslims for supressing Muslims and you ask your government to withdraw support immediately for the same despots we both agree should go.... but please just resist any urges to "liberate" by bombing them to smithereens.
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Sounds like a plan. I too wish US would not support these despots. But don't you think though that the option in most Muslim countries (Arabs in particular) is either despot or radical fundamentalist? The US is hedging its bets that the citizens would be living in oppressed conditions either way but at least with the despots, extremists are kept in semi-check and oil is not used as a weapon against the US. US suport of despots is not because they like seeing others live in oprression. Because let's face it, the alternative of living under radical fundamentalism is not a pretty picture for them either.
**If the 'Ummah' is perceived to be impotent towards the atrocities committed by Muslims over Muslims and all anger gravitates towards the US, there is a reason; the ummah considers the US to be responsible for these regimes.. for arming them, strengthening them, trading with them. They consider the US complicit in the reign of terror and oppression their regimes have inflicted on them for decades.
**What about the atrocitities committed by China? Musilm extremists in the Phillipines? The US isn't supporting Iran, what about ONE thread that addresses their brutal policies? You can't continue to excuse Saddam's attrocities because the US support Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. For every Muslim despot America supports, there is another nation that is not supported by the US where Muslim suffering is real. And there are no Muslim advocates for them.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
.....extremists are kept in semi-check and oil is not used as a weapon against the US.....
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Chicken first or egg?
But you forgot to mention that these radical fundamentalist are also running your country through democracy, so if these fundamentalist come in power through democracy then its the people choice, the US shouldn not be worried about it.
and using oil as a weapon, its thier choice as well, can Lockeed sell aircrafts to Iran?