Rani ji...
Kafir is an arabic word meaning non-believer. Meaning, non-believer in Islam...
You have your religion and we have ours...
Yes, according to our religion, there is hell...there will be people going to hell...even the muslims that commited wrong doings...That is our faith...
Islam does provide freedom of practice of religion...in NWFP, I have seen Sikhs who havebeen living there since before partition...they speak pushto, hold buisnesses, are honest people...Never in my life I have heard about any problems btw Pathans(muslims) and Sikhs...
Isn't it Pakistani muslims that LET you guys come to Lahore...in peace, year after year. Whereas, it was golden temple that was targetted by Indra Gandhi...How many died in that bloody-episode...in a democratic country like India...Indra was assasinated by two proud, loyal Sikhs...loyal to their faith, not the country...Wasn't it Pakistan that helped the Sikhs in many ways against the tyrany of Ganhi...
Recently, more than twenty Sikhs were butchered by Indian troops near Kashmir...for political reasons...since you share the borger with us, it willbe easy for India to put you in fight with us...wipe you out by muslims rather than blood on their hands...
The hinus used you all in partition time, used you to kill muslims on the border...where was your peaceful faith then...the border was a LIVING-HELL...
No offense to Hindus in general, but they are WICKED...it was Shiva Ji who wanted to hold talks for peace with a Pathan-muslim leader, invited the deligation over...and as he embraced the man...Shive ji stabbed him in the back...(centuries ago)
We don't have to agree with you. We accept you as a sikh...but donot welcome your absurd personal opinions about muslims...your personal experince is due to YOUR personal hatred and grudge against us...
Take the blindfold off, start seeing rather than only listening and talikng...
No offense to Hindus in general, but they are WICKED...<<
Guru Govind Singh Ji was stabbed by Pathans when they came to meet him, all the mughal ruler abused Hindu population and tortured and murdered Guru Arjan Dev ji and Guru Teg Bhadar ji and also buried alive children of Guru Govind Singh ji in a wall....with your logic what should muslims be called.
Train loads of muslims from Pakistan come to Mir Chishtis dargah in Ajmer and we have a huge muslim population.
I have met many Sikhs who have visited nanakana sahib and punja sahib, on their journey from nanakana sahib to punja sahib, seven hundred pillgrims were crammed in one train, there was no place to sit or move...they tell a horrible tale of how they were treated...no medical attention for sick etc.
Calling people wicked will get you nowhere. I have already made my thoughts and reasons known why I don't liked to be called names, you can justify all you can that doesn't make it right.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 27, 2000).]
Rani,
What you have to say about the incidence of Babri Mosque? What was that all about? Indian showed how much love and respect they have towards muslim community, and here you are talking about the mistreatment of Sikhs who visited nankana sahib.
Masooma
Masooma,
What do you have to say about 434 hindu temples demolished in Pakistan as a retaliation to Babri masjid to teach wicked hindus a lessons?... did that showed lot of love for Pakistani Hindus (a very small group) -who did nothing and had no control over the events in India.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 27, 2000).]
Rani,
Temples brought down were in retaliation. Yes, that was probably a wrong way of expressing the anger and hurt sentiments of the ppl who were helpless witnesses to the way the whole Babri Masjid issue unfolded in minority-protecting India.
But this was just a highly emotional retaliation. What was the reason behind destroying Babri Masjid? Retaliation to the presence of a sacred Muslim place of worship?
RANI,
IF Pakistanies actually wanted to show hatered towards hindu's or indian republicans,they would have destryoed the major relegious center for non-muslims and that is in nankana sahib, but no we didn't do anything. Babri masjib wasn't only a mosque but also a historical building of muslims, it was a MAJOR mosque.It was an international issue, who knows how many other masjids have been set on fire by hindus and sikhs in india, but no one knows about them because they are not MAJORLY known.
The temples in Pakistan(most of them) weren't used as worshipping places for non-muslims , but my point is, BABRI MASJID, LOCATED WHERE THE MAJORITY IS MUSLIM, STILL DESTRYOED AND MUSLIM POPULATION COULDN'T DO ANYTHING!!
AND ANOTHER POINT, PAKISTANI gov did not contribute any sort of support to help those angry muslims in Pakistan, where as Indian govt was the major source of providing security to those hindus+sikhs in destroying A MAJOR mosque for all muslims in India and Pak!
You have any idea how would we muslims have felt when Hindus+sikhs destroyed Babari masjid, well if not, just imagine how would you feel, if something similar happens to your respectable places located in Pak.(nankana sahib etc)
Actually you know what, i consider sikhs a very innocent but agressive community, and Hindus just happen to take disadvantage of their innocence.
Rani, you can't compare the loss of those temples(and some of them weren't even used)with the loss of our Masjid, not because our relegion is more respectable,but because it was destroyed where the majority was muslims, and still they couldn't help saving the masjid. This is one reason kashmir should be set free, well thats another issue.
i know its useless argueing with you, because when you will come to a point where you don't have an answer, this is what you will write, "i don't see this arguement taking us any where, so i rest my case", and if your egoistic being won't allow you to give such a statement, you will start repeating some of your old question which don't make any sense, but just to let others know that RANI CAN'T QUIT, even when she knows she is lost.
Masooma
Rani,with due respect no one likes to be called name not only you.We all get called name that is a fact too.
I dont know your motive behnd two threads on Sikh religion,let me guess
Propoganda,you want to gain sympathy for Sikh religion spl. among naive,young,less knowledheable ppl. of this pak. forum when they dont have as much experience about sikh as India.Well i must say u are suceessful b/c you have a very good captive audience unlike Indo link.
You want to show that somehow that moslem should feel guilty of there religion b/c you say moghul beat you up.We dont know much about that.
Or you want to show that how nice sikh has been compared to moslem then after meeting you ,talking to you,interacting with you & over 6 months period i have observed that you are islam basher worst i have seen. you have a monotonous one theme tunnel view of islam,You think Islam is alone to have something spl. for its best adherent.Every religion including Hindu & sikhism differentiates discriminates not only between it & other religion but between its own followers.
Hindus wont eat in moslem home,Do you think you or me can go incertain parts of golden temple?sure there are certain areas in every religion that is out of bound but its not unjust or unfair but custom.What if i said Rani u may be Kafir now but i wont say you ll go to hell ,b/c to tell you frankly upto the time you die only god knows who is going to please god most.is it better
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif
If moslems can live in India usa u.k with non moslem,why couldnt sardar stay in Pakistan with Moslems or in other moslem countries b/c they cant adjust like moslem do in the land where they live with non moslems.
You should stop irritating moslem by Anwar Sheikh— Arun shourie who are islam basher world reknown.
Masooma,
I really don't want to discuss anything with you....you need to do lot of learning and growing before you can discuss anything logically.
Just what i expected from you Rani.
"Two wrongs donot make a right."
...we do have our mind set about most of the people too...
...What I really hate, is when someone re-posts a PART of the post and try to bend and exploit it...it's known as TUNNEL-VISION...
...I don't like the word PAKI, and I don't appreciate people putting down Muslims...
...Smell your own arm-pits before you tell someone else that they stink...
...Live and let live...
sanam.. as far as i know u r allowed to go everywhere in golden temple.
BlandaMunda007
...Live and let live...<<
Oh really!!!! tell your religious leaders about it. I have already replied about this philosphy and you ignored it. Also, tell to people who keep repeating verses from Koran that 'Kafirs will go to hell' and 'slay idol worshippers wherever you find them unless they repent and ask for mercy'.
This is going nowhere. People are teaching people how to post, what to say and what not to say. Start a new thread to set these guidelines.
What was the point and what is being discussed here? Re-state the case in another thread please.