Sikhism and Guru Granth Sahib!

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Hello Friends,

Here are some links about Sikhism that I liked and hope you will get some insight into the Sikh faith by reading some of the stuff there if you want to.
I have been participating ate Pak.org for about a year and intertacting with lot of you and reading various posts here and following the posted links have increased my understanding of Islam and its followers. I believe we should all stick to our faiths but know enough about others to be more understandable and be part of a diverse but harmonious civil society.

Hope it be of some help.

Main Web site: http://www.sikhs.org/topics.htm

To Read Englsih translation of Guru Granth Sahib:
http://www.sikhs.org/topics.htm

Sikh Memories in photographs
http://www.sikhs.simplenet.com/memories/

Thanks
CM

2

Hi

Thanks for the links Chann jee, I didn’t read all of it, however I have some questions, from what I did read.

” "I observe neither Hindu fasting nor the ritual of the Muslim Ramadan month; Him I serve who at the last shall save. The Lord of universe of the Hindus, Gosain and Allah to me are one; From Hindus and Muslims have I broken free. I perform neither Kaaba pilgrimage nor at bathing spots worship; One sole Lord I serve, and no other. I perform neither the Hindu worship nor the Muslim prayer; To the Sole Formless Lord in my heart I bow. We neither are Hindus nor Muslims; Our body and life belong to the One Supreme Being who alone is both Ram and Allah for us." (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib, Raga Bhairon pg. 1136)”

Why are Islam and Hinduism being compared with Sikhism in a Sikh holy book?

The founder of the Sikh religion was Guru Nanak who was born in 1469. He preached a message of love and understanding and criticized the blind rituals of the Hindus and Muslims.
And
Sikhism condemns blind rituals such as fasting, visiting places of pilgrimage, superstitions, worship of the dead, idol worship etc.

Why are these rituals blind? I don’t know about Hinduism but Islam explains in details why we should fast, worship etc. What did he mean by Dead, superstitions and idol worship rituals?

Why shouldn’t Sikhs cut their hair? And why should they carry a Kirpan with them?

Oh and I’m just being curious :)

3

Chann Yar, very enlightening and educational. I personally have, through my parents and elders, learnt enough about Sikhism and I appreciate the differences. Like all other religions, Sikhism preaches brotherhood and peace. In terms of people, and our differences aside, I think of you as my Punjabi Brother, and all those that live in Indian Punjab (and elsewhere). Hopefully one day, we can all bring our superficial boundaries down and embrace each other regardless of our differences in faith. Deep down, there are more similarities than differences in various religions. The differences are of minimal importance. Sadly, those differences have been signified by those who have made a profession out of religion, and have left the true teachings of their respective faiths, i.e., brotherhood and compassion.

4

Hi Sabah,

Like I said before, I consider myself the least knowledgable person to answer anything on Sikh philosophy and scriptures. My knowledge about Sikhism is based on observation, common sense and very rare and random encouters with some writings.. But I will try to answer some of your post but don't take it was the final word...because thats hardly what it is.

Whole of the Ad Granth is in poetry form and its not very uncommon to illustrate one's point by analogies and examples in poetry. Lot of other poets have used these references in their writings too like Bulleh Shah, Hazrat Sultan Bahu etc. Sikh gurus believed in the existance of one supreme being called by various names as God, Ram, Lord, Allah and human being's ultimate goal is to reunite with that Supereme being as thats where we came from. Only way to do that in Sikh gurus mind is to recite His name and praise and pray to Him. Where and when you do that is not important. I don't think Guru Arjan in this paragraph is comparing are doing any comprative study of any religion but he is merely denouncing and settig himself apart from what was going around him and saying how he want to please the supreme being and re unite with Him(Him with capital H means that its not a gender specific reference). I am sure it is explained in more detail in some other parts of Ad Granth's 1430 pages.

Guru Arjan somewhere has said" Awal Allah noor upayeaa qudrat ke sabh banday, aik noor te sabh jagg upajeyaa kaun bhallay kaun manday" (One and only one God has created all the people. We have all come from the same 'noor' then how can one be better than the other).
So I will say it to be unfair to think that those refeneces were made to degrade some person or religion in the paragraph you quoted.

As for these comments by the website host:

The founder of the Sikh religion was Guru Nanak who was born in 1469. He preached a message of love and understanding and criticized the blind rituals of the Hindus and Muslims.<<

And

Sikhism condemns blind rituals such as fasting, visiting places of pilgrimage, superstitions, worship of the dead, idol worship etc.<<

Sikh Gurus believed that all rituals are fruitless as for as it comes to living a truthful and good life and reuniting with God. Sikhism in its basic philosophy denouces all kinds of rituals(co-incidently ones mentioned here were Muslim and Hindu rituals, since those were the ones gurus first hand observed.). Although it is very interesting to mention here that lot of Sikhs now a days observe lot of religious rituals too. The irony of every religion. Truth is not in Words but in its implementation. And we all fall short when it comes to implementaion.

As for why some of these rituals are blind...I don't think I know that much to explain. I think there is material available inside and outside of Guru Granth if one wants to know. There is one story from Baba Nanak's life that proves the Hindu ritual of throwing water at sun in the hope that it will reach their dead ancestors in heaven. When brahmins were throwing water in the direction of sun, baba Nanak started throwing water in the direction his home town was. Brahmins questioned why are you doing that? why are you throwing it in that direction and not on sun. Nanak asked why are you guys throwing it towards sun? They answered becasue we want it to reach their ancestors in heaven. Nanak said, well I am throwing it towards my home town where my crops, that I sowed before leaving for travels, are dieing and need water. Brahmins said" you are paagal, How can water reach your fields in Punjab thousand miles away.?"..Nanak answered, why not? My fields are much closer than the heavens. Hence brahims realised their efforts were in vein. Nanak said, the only things that can reach to dead people are their own good deeds, nothign else.

Your questions regarding hair and kirpan are very common and most sikh related web sites have information of that. I hope you can find the appropriate one.

As for curious:).. thats ok...we as humans are not very good at looking at things in their entirity but take pieces(ones we like) at a time and try to make the picture that usually ends up wrong.

CM

5

Sabah,

After posting the above message I researched a bit more on the stanza you quoted from Ad Granth. and let me assure you once again, my belief that I don't much about Sikhism has been re-affiremed again:) That Stanza is not by Guru Arjan but by Bhagat Kabeer ji. It's on page 1136 of Ad Granth. I read the original version of the stanza written in Gurmukhi but language is not pure Punjabi..as it is by Kabeer. He was not Punjabi. I also read some other translations of the stanza and compared them. And guess what? I think when Muslims cry that many translations of Quran are wrong and don't do justice to the original text, I bet there is some truth. None of the translations(3) I read have the same impact of the original verse.
Also, you didn't quote the stanza in full. Last couplet bearing the name of Bhagat Kabeer is missing.

here is other translations I found:

1.)
I neither keep the Hindu fasts nor the muslim Ramdan
I serve him alone who in the end will save me.
My lord is both the Muslim Allah and the Hindu Gosain,
And thus have I settled the dispute between the Hindu and the Muslim
I do not go on the pilgrimage to mecca
Nor bathe myself at the Hindu holy places
I serve the One lord,and none beside him;
Neither performing Hindu worship nor offering Muslim prayer,
To the formless I bow in my heart,
Neither am I a hindu nor am I moslem
Though I belong body and soul to the one God
Who is both Allah and Ram,Listen,O Kabir;
Encountering the true Guru,One encounters God.

2.)
I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan.

I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. | |1| |

    The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
    He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. | |1| |Pause| |
    I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.
    I serve the One Lord, and not any other. | |2| |

    I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.

    I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. | |3| |

    I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
    My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. | |4| |
    Says Kabeer, this is what I say:

    meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. | |5| |3| |

And now here is the original Stanza if you can understand it:)

*vart na rahou na mei(N) ramdana| |
tiss saivee jo rakhe nidhana| |1| |

aik Gosai(N) Allhu mera.
Hindu Turak duhaN nabera.| |1| |Rahao| |

Hajj Kaabe jao(N) na tirath pooja.
aiko saivee uvar[aur] na dooja| |2| |

pooja karoo(N) na nivaaj gujaaro(N).
aik NiraNkaar lai ridhai namsakaaro(N)| |3| |

na hum Hindu na Musalman.
Allah Ram ke pind paraan| |4| |

kahu kabeer ehu kiya vakhana| |
Gur pir milay khud khasam pachhana| |5| |3| |*

One thing to be noted is though that, Bhagat Kabeer in this stanza is not preaching the Sikhs but to both Hindus and Muslims. As there were no Sikhs(in the sense we have now) in his life.

Hope it helps. To be frank, I have learned lot in here today. Thanks for bringing up the points.

CM

[This message has been edited by ChannMahi (edited October 29, 1999).]

6

I will try to answer some of the important questions raised by you regarding Sikhism without going into to much detail.

” "I observe neither Hindu fasting nor the ritual of the Muslim Ramadan month; Him I serve who at the last shall save. The Lord of universe of the Hindus, Gosain and Allah to me are one; From Hindus and Muslims have I broken free. I perform neither Kaaba pilgrimage nor at bathing spots worship; One sole Lord I serve, and no other. I perform neither the Hindu worship nor the Muslim prayer; To the Sole Formless Lord in my heart I bow. We neither are Hindus nor Muslims; Our body and life belong to the One Supreme Being who alone is both Ram and Allah for us." (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib, Raga Bhairon pg. 1136)”

Why are Islam and Hinduism being compared with Sikhism in a Sikh holy book?

Guru Arjan Dev ji is not comparing Islam with Hinduism, if your read the above passage he is rejecting rituals of both the religions, he is saying the man is not born Hindu or Muslim and we are all human beings first and foremost. We can achieve God by worshipping him regardless of our religion. By going to Kabba or by taking a pilgrimage you don’t achieve God because the God (the Sikh believe in) is formless and Supreme Being and he is every where and loves all human beings regardless of their religion and is not influenced by rituals.

Sikh religion is one of the most egalitarian, humanist and universal religion. Sikhs believe God loves all human beings regardless of their religion and you can be good and spiritual person by following any path or by just being good human being. Every body regardless of their class and creed are welcome in Sikh Gurdwaras to emphasis this openness and oneness of mankind Gurdwaras have four doors and Langar service- where everybody can sit and eat together.

Sikhism condemns blind rituals such as fasting, visiting places of pilgrimage, superstitions, worship of the dead, idol worship etc.

In Sikhism being a good human being is the most important. Some of the most important attributes of a good human being are:

 One who does honest work and generates his/her livelihood by honest means
 A good householder who looks after his family
 Shares with less fortunate
 Truthful
 One who stands up against Zulm (tyranny)

Sikhism does not believe that one can achieve salivation (please or find God)though fasting and other rituals. By doing good deeds (Karm) and leading a good honest life is the only way to find peace and God. According to Sikhism Fasting and pilgrimages are mere rituals, which cannot substitute for good deeds or honest life style.

Sikhism is a Mystic religion with its root in east, Sikh gurus are teachers not messenger or prophets they do not profess to have any special link to God. According to Sikhism alll of us have God within us and we can be become one with him by following the path of truthfulness and righteousness regardless of our religion.

Why shouldn’t Sikhs cut their hair? And why should they carry a Kirpan with them?

This is very important question and has its roots in the history of times. I will post my reply to this question seperately.