I find this statement of yours quite interesting. It is constructed without regard to our belief … if you understood our belief of Mahdi you wouldn’t regurgitate this stuff that you have been given.
When Mahdi (RA) comes there will be no option clearer … he will be stirring the masses up - I, being the person I am like many Muslims just stick to the majority. Especially when the signs - are coming true … the eclipse is not even a sign of your Mahdi … To be a sign it must precede the person not come during their life …
To be a sign it must precede the person not come during their life
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what is the basis of this claim? if such a sign occurs before a claimant, any potential claimant can claim that it is for him.
Are you saying that a person can toy with heavenly bodies to make this happen?
what is the basis of this claim? if such a sign occurs before a claimant, any potential claimant can claim that it is for him.
Are you saying that a person can toy with heavenly bodies to make this happen?
That would be a sign that it is not him ...
We don't want to see people to come and tell us about a sign that they fulfil and then reinterpret it for us to make it fit ...
We have to be the ones who make the call - otherwise anyone can come along and interpret the ahadith to apply it to themselves and claim to be this or that ... It happened in Makkah in the 70s as stated by Sh. Yasir Qadhi.
There has to be an independent call - that by the scholars - it is essential that the flag bearers of Islam are the ones who recognise the Mahdi ...
Let me check and verify just a few signs of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani with the details in the most prominent Ahadith of the Prophet (SAW) teach us:
(1) Mahdi will be in Madina and migrate to Makkah where he will be recognized by pious muslims sitting in the Masjid Al Haram and to be specific in the area of hateem - **not checked **Mirza Sahib was in Qadiyan, India when he claimed to be Mahdi.
(2) Three Armies will proceed towards Mahdi, two of them against him and will be sunk in the earth - not checked Mirza Sahib actually abandon Jihad and praised Queen Victoria a few times.
(3) The third army who will march towards Mahdi to aide him will come from Khurasan wearing black Turbans and no one will be able to face them, and they will reach Eliya (Jerusalem) and conquer it during the lifetime of Mahdi. Did it happen in the life of Mirza Sahib? No. -** not checked** In the lifetime of Mirza Sahib, there was no need to conquer Jerusalem as it was ruled by Ottoman Caliphate.
So, my rejection of him as a Mahdi is based on sound reasoning of finding him untruthful in his claims.
What you missed out is the coming of Messiah from the skies literally with the same body. Include that as your number one reason of the rejection of anyone.
Also, since your belief is that Mahdi will be raising a Muslim army, I do not understand the need of Mahdi when Messiah will be performing similar task. That is, killing anyone who does not believe in Him, and ofc in your belief he will be a muslim. So why 2 people needed for same task ? Christians will then for sure say that Islam is spread by sword!
I strongly reject your understanding of ahadith in regards to Messiah/Mahdi, the way you have understood it because I firmly believe Islam will prevail in the world by winning the hearts of people, not the way you people describe it. Note : I did not say i reject the ahadith. I reject your understanding of it. I can give you answers to the points you raised, but it's not going to help you because you have given the responsibility of understanding deen to molvies, and will accept whatever they tell you to be true. I won't bother writing much now.
What you missed out is the coming of Messiah from the skies literally with the same body. Include that as your number one reason of the rejection of anyone.
Also, since your belief is that Mahdi will be raising a Muslim army, I do not understand the need of Mahdi when Messiah will be performing similar task. That is, killing anyone who does not believe in Him, and ofc in your belief he will be a muslim. So why 2 people needed for same task ? Christians will then for sure say that Islam is spread by sword!
I strongly reject your understanding of ahadith in regards to Messiah/Mahdi, the way you have understood it because I firmly believe Islam will prevail in the world by winning the hearts of people, not the way you people describe it. Note : I did not say i reject the ahadith. I reject your understanding of it. I can give you answers to the points you raised, but it's not going to help you because you have given the responsibility of understanding deen to molvies, and will accept whatever they tell you to be true. I won't bother writing much now.
Peace Mr.Popat
Yes, we proudly believe in the descent of Isa (AS), but we are talking about the Mahdi here.
Your second paragraph is just poor rationalism in place of the Hadith and doesn't deserve an answer.
Yes, in an age when interpretation and translation is the Fitnah ... In such an age our only hope is to get reasoned unanimously accepted ulema to guide us ...
We don't want to see people to come and tell us about a sign that they fulfil and then reinterpret it for us to make it fit ...
We have to be the ones who make the call - otherwise anyone can come along and interpret the ahadith to apply it to themselves and claim to be this or that ... It happened in Makkah in the 70s as stated by Sh. Yasir Qadhi.
There has to be an independent call - that by the scholars - it is essential that the flag bearers of Islam are the ones who recognise the Mahdi ...
Kiya baat hai janab ki. you will elect or select someone of your liking. this is totally opposed to Quranic teaching where it says 'He bestows His 'fazal' on whoever He wishes'. Truthful people are not driven by their own whim but express guidance of Allah whereas those who lie on His behalf get the punishment even in this world. that is what we know from Quran.
Look back in history. it were not the scholars or people at large who selected or chose someone to guide them. Actually, they made accusations as how can we believe him to be from Allah who is like us etc.
At another place also, you said that mahdi will be asked by people to take bayt. It would be great if you quote the hadith (without interpretation). I looked for it and actually this is a fact that HMGAQ (as) had been asked by people around him to take their pledge of alleigiance (bait) long before he was told that he is the mahdi. he didn't take the bayt till he was told by Allah. All this is documented.
Will this Mahdi be killed like the first 11 imams?
salam alaikum
this isnt about them (shias) but not all 11 imams were martyred, they made that up, for effect, like special effects but emotional play with the unfortunate followers
Alright, but I think this belief in Mahdi is fake. It’s basically from Zoroastrianism, they believe in a person like Mahdi who will appear in the end times. I think his name is Saoshyant. He will do the similar things sunnis’ and shia’s Mahdi will do. The shia belief of Rajah is also from Zoroastrians as Saoshyant will do the same things that he will make the criminals alive, punish them, the way shias believe their Mahdi will got the sunni caliphs alive and then punish them.
See this ))))))) The SAOSHYANT : : Her Holiness Alexandra Hehpsehboah (((((((](http://www.saoshyant.org/)
The hadiths on Mahdi were fabricated by shias and they were included to sunnis' hadith books of lesser degree. There's no hadith about Mahdi in Bukhari and Muslim.
the shias use an islamic template for their beliefs. bukhari and muslim did a fine job, i dont know if their collections contain mahdi hadiths or not but they are not the complete hadith collections. there is others. the authentication process is not so fragile that fabricated hadiths can get through. collection of weak, fabricated hadiths is one thing but authentication is another.
the shias use an islamic template for their beliefs. bukhari and muslim did a fine job, i dont know if their collections contain mahdi hadiths or not but they are not the complete hadith collections. there is others. the authentication process is not so fragile that fabricated hadiths can get through. collection of weak, fabricated hadiths is one thing but authentication is another.
A controversial hadith authenticated by one scholar and rejected by the other, so what do you do?
If the belief in Mahdi was so important then Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim should have been aware of it too, and if they were aware of it or held the same aqeeda they should have included few of them in their collections, which they didn't. Many sunnis give excuses but they still fail to present a single hadith on Mahdi in Bukhari or Muslim.
And if shias use an Islamic template then what template did Zoroastrians followed in mutah, rajah, mourning rituals etc?
A controversial hadith authenticated by one scholar and rejected by the other, so what do you do?
rejected or accepted on what basis? fabricated or weak? are there any other supporting hadiths?
i honestly cant remember if there is mahdi hadiths in bukhari or muslim. you need to talk to farid at islamic-forum for specific hadith questions
what i can tell you is that your fear of shia influencing islam is unfounded. the shia copy muslims with slight alteration, enabling them to keep zoastarianism going but being an anti-thesis to islam
for example, their mahdi was conjured up after no imams were left, and khums needed collecting (people saw a way to make money). this was a copy of the islamic belief not the other way round
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And if shias use an Islamic template then what template did Zoroastrians followed in mutah, rajah, mourning rituals etc?
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when we talk about the shia, we are basically talking about 100's small groups at one time, some of them were free sexing (eg khurramiya) (infidels who loved it) others believed Gibrael AS made a mistake and went to the wrong man (ghuraabiya)
they all inserted abit of their desires into religion, mutah was one of those beliefs which could keep them satisfied (fulfill their desires) all they had to do was disobey the Prophet SAW, rajah is a belief of hindutype initial shias (cant give you a name for example group on this), mourning rituals were looked down upon intheir previous form but it happened, so in memory of Hussain RA (a long long time after shahadat of Hussain RA) they felt it was severe enough incident to merit mourning
so the templates are: free sexing-mutah, rajah-blessing on Isa AS, mourning-even they dont know on what basis they mourn (some christians mourn the way shia do)
also Allah SWT sent 124000 prophets, peace be upon them, so remnants of islamic teachings may be found in other cultures
the Prophet SAW said words to the effect : “all prophets warned their people about the false messiah (dajjal)” alongside the false messiah comes the true Messiah (Isa ibn Maryam AS) so from this in my opinion the messiah-ship is a belief of which we will find remnants of in other religions. false claimants to messiahship are many, all the ideologies i know which do this end up with false messiah even though they are trying to replicate true messiah
the mahdi in islam will just be a leader of the revival (fightback of muslims). we (ordinary muslims) are required to fightback alongside him as this is last chance to follow what Allah SWT commanded of us.
there are references to end of times in the Quran and hadith, they show the disbelievers/gog/magog/dajjal devouring the muslims. the scenario is not something deniable for muslims
with the permission of Allah, i have been helpful to you in making sense of the different claims
