Signs of black magic/demonic possessions

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Signs of black magic/demonic possessions

I think you did not read his 2nd post. Like you, he did not say that he went to “someone” who told him that so and so has casted a spell on him or his parents but it was through observation of his SIL’s actions, spoken words and attitude and changed behaviour of his parents towards their other children and blindly agreeing to his SIL. If you went to someone to ask him about the unseen, you committed shirk because no one knows the matters of the unseen and even if someone claims to know, we must not ask them… So what you suffered was probably due to your own sin of believing that a human can tell you the matters of another human’s heart.

What he said in his post was that his SIL asked names of someone’s parents and mentioned of giving it to some man to fulfil what she wanted from that family. That is a very usual practice among the magicians. So that alone confirms that his SIL was in contact with a magician and into such practices. There is a kind of sihr in which you can make the victim worship you like God or love you to extremes, not leave your side. All kinds of magicians do it muslim or not. When he clearly knows his SIL is indeed in contact with magicians, what more proof should he require? He trusted the information he gathered himself. Did not visit a magician who claimed to see another person’s heart like you did. Every situation is different. So invalidating someone else’s genuine problem because your own was such because you blindly trusted what a magician told you (I believe that magician you visited also asked you names of your friend’s parents) and followed his advice is quite stupid.

There are genuine cases with real issues and not every other case is the same as yours.

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And as regard to your personal story, yes I’ve been down that road as well, when we make accusations on close relatives/friends and isolate ourselves. Which is burdensome and does not solve anything in the end of the day. My point in making the thread was to point out that black magic doesnt necessarily have to be done on you by a friend but also can be done by an organized group to achieve a form of “social engineering”. To use satanic methods in various strengths as a means to gradually weaken faith and assimilate people, especially the youth into the Western secular immoral lifestyle.

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^I would like to add something. I know of two amils…they do ask for the mother’s name…but they never charge a single dime. Ever. They will even tell you that there is absolutely no sihr on you…and even for this never charge. They’ve never charged my relatives nor my friends…no one. For treatment, they only prescribe surahs and Allah’s names. They never prescribe or require suspicious things like a goat’s head etc etc. There are some amils who ask for the mother’s name and they’re corrupt…but not all of them.

The ones using the mother’s name are said to use a jinn. Some use the jinn’s help for naik purposes and ithers use the jinn for fitnah. I have heard that it’s against shariah to use a jinn, but then I’ve also heard a mufti say that if the jinn is forced against its will to help…then it’s prohibited…however if the jinn willingly helps…it’s okay. And Allah knows best. There are people among the awliya of Allah who are granted kashf…which is the ability to see things from the ghaib…but it’s from Allah. They may also be able to see jinns…and possibly enlist the help of a pious jinn in helping people. So, I have come to the conclusion that you can’t judge right away that someone is a 100% magician. They may be using a jinn to determine if their is sihr on a person…but they could be using it for good instead of evil.

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@redvelvet

Such aalims use a jinn to ask that person’s qareen to get information which the person wants to know. Someone gave me number of a similar aalim who does not even meet or charge anything. Only answers queries through phone and only if you provide reference of someone. When I did not know better, I did call him in desperation. He told me very bad amliyaats were done on me 14 years ago to cripple everything in my life health, finances, career, relationships with parents and everyone, sanity and everything in my life. While I was at that point once in my life, I still am in good health with caring parents and ‘okay’ financially. Im trying to reject the information he gave me. Who knows what his jinns told him was correct? And even if it was correct, I did manage to fight the negative forces without even knowing that I was under their influence. If I did it myself without seeking any help for 14 years, why ask now?

There might be aalims who do it in good faith and there might be jinns who want to help people but for such help from the unseen, we do not have to go to such aalims or their jinns to ask them. Jinns are all around us. The good ones and the bad ones. The good ones help us even if we dont ask. My belief is that the aalims are humans (A creation of God) and the jinns are another creation of God. So, even if they’re doing in good cause, their help is nothing in comparison with if asked Allah directly. The creation of Allah is not bigger than Allah and are limited in so many ways. If we do have to ask for help, why not ask the creator directly? Because asking humans weakens our own imaan. Like for example, after asking that aalim (When I did not know that asking humans was a form of shirk), I was petrified thinking about who did it (Because being a ‘good’ aalim, he did not tell me that). Taken over by gloom because he said nothing I do can remove the effects of those amliyaat unless followed some kind of ‘khushboo ka amal’ (because the jinns sent on me are muslims, go figure, hehehe). He may be right because I was told by someone else (friends insisted me to check with that guy who was visiting their house) that there are two MUSLIM (but crazy) jinns who follow me around. That guy also didnt charge anything. But he was sooo dirty to look at with long long hair, did not show his face (As it was covered with his long hair), oozed foul smell (my friend who was sitting closer to him told me later) and lives in a secluded place outside some mazaar in Islamabad. So anyway, what I mean is, no matter in good cause or not, not using the satanic rituals for cure or not, seeking a human’s or a jinn’s help by ASKING them weakens our own faith in God. When we can and are encouraged by Allah to reach out to Him directly, why go through so many turns and roundabouts and bumps and mountains to reach Him? If Allah accept our duas, He will make a 100 ways to get us out of a trial without us seeking out any worldly help right where we are. Even make those jinns leave us without any khushboo ka amal or whatever. And sometimes, the trials we feel our burdensome on us are actually good for us. I am glad that before this, I had never had a chance to get as close to my parents as I am now, experience their love. And this trial actually removed so many misunderstandings between us and helped me gain so much knowledge. There were times when the evil energies got the best of me but it was because I allowed them because I was weak in physical, spiritual and mental health. Nobody can cure you better than yourself (As long as you’re not a victim of sihr of insanity).

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Sady, the amils my relatives are acquainted with are not filthy and foul-smelling. They are clean and religious and strongly urge others to pray namaz, to not consume interest, to trust Allah, etc. And they do not encourage anyone to rely on somebody other than Allah for help…they direct you toward ibadat and trust im Allah. Agar woh koi surahs parhne ko kehtay hain…to kuch ghalat to nahi kar rahay that I should eye them with suspicion. You will view things based on your experiences and I will view them based on mine and so far Alhumdolillah mine have been consistently positive.

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Hi @redvelvet sorry I had to go away.

Well, if you are sure that those aalims cure only by advising to read quranic surahs, Allah’s names, Islamic azkaars and duas despite seeking jinn’s help then that is a rarity because the most aalims who claim to be religious / Islamic always give ‘taaweez’ to tie around your neck or parts of body or mix in water and drink or just keep with you or they give suger or other sweet things to eat after making some kind of ‘damm’ on it and they dont tell you what they read on it. They also tell you not to open taaweezes. I got hold of several in my own household, not knowing who brought them and hid them in corners. And I opened to check what was in them. I found on them numbers, strange names (Apart from the names of Allah and the angels), circles, squares, in orange / yellowish ink. Some with names of my parents and siblings. One taaweez I opened had my mother’s name with scribbling which were impossible to read. And these taaweez which we found from our own house and God knows how many were hanged / burned in GRAVEYARDS as someone also told me there was some taweez with my name on it hanging in some graveyard (reminds me of my discussion with vroom in other thread) to keep me and my life just like the life of that hanging taaweez.

Two other people in Pakistan claimed they know people who only cure by advising to read quranic surahs, etc. They insisted I call them when I was quite irritated with these aalims. I still called them and the first thing they said was they wanted to meet and give me taaweezes to sew into my pillows and hang around my neck. When I told them I did not believe in taweez and cures and requsted them to advise me what to read from quran and to give me any duas and azkaars. They were not happy upon hearing that. They said they cant help me as taweez are very much ‘Islamic’. This is the state muslim ummah is in. There are hardly any people with true knowledge of Islam.

So, in short, if your aalims really only advise reading from quran, Allah’s names, Islamic duas and azkaars despite asking mother’s name and seeking jinn’s help, that sure is a rarity and a blessing if you know someone like that. Because word of Quran is a blessing for all.

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Oh lord, you don’t need satanic spells for that, just put up billboards of call girls and strip clubs along the interstate, and make pre-marital sex/drugs/alcohol freely available, and people will make those choices of their own volition.

Believe it or not, the kids in America who are of muslim descent who have gone off the path and are engaging in wrong doing are doing it because they CHOSE to.

There is something called self-responsibility. Keep blaming jadoo for everything that goes wrong, and the community will never take responsibility for it’s problems.

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And let’s take some responsibility for this also. Masjids (some, not all) in the US can be claustrophobic. They aren’t respectful to women (we need a website highlighting pics of how small space or no space is given to women to pray and how they have to walk thru nastiness or dark stairwells to get to their prayer space).

Attendees within masjids drive other muslims away with their judgemental behavior. Posting on social media with judgemental ideas also drives people away.

Muslims who aren’t welcomed in the community and arent treated with respect, will walk away from the faith at some point. Not all of us, I’ve definitely been mistreated in masjids. But I still read the Quran still have faith, etc. But I can tell you I know a lot of people who are just fed up with the aunty-culture at masjids and at cultural gatherings that they would rather not spend their free time engaging in those activities with their community.

So instead, they hang out with non-muslims. Which can work two ways. If your company is non-muslim, but clean and good, then fine. But if they encourage you to go to clubs with them, try alcohol, try messing around with the opposite sex, try drugs, try marijuana to “relax”, etc, then all this becomes a part of your culture, and you slowly move away from your spirituality because your spare time is being used in listening to loud music/using mind altering substances/engaging in mind altering acts. Sorry, at that point, you’re very far from the meditation to God.

Has nothing to do with jadoo. Really. Let’s grow up and take responsibility for our communities. Next time you see a small kid at the masjid, be sweet to them. Welcome them. Make them feel at home. You see a teen that smiles at you and looks awkward, sitting with their mom/dad, knows no one there, talk to them. Develop mentorship at the masjid you go to. Become involved. Reach out to muslims. We used to reach out to muslims on our college/grad school campuses, even if they were not religious. I made it a point to reach out to girls that I can see people would normally hiss upon - girls who wore sleeveless, tight jeans, skirts, etc. I was just reading commentary on the facebook video posted by Nauman Ali Khan towards the JJ scandal, and I raised the point that does Veena get this opportunity for justice, and you will not believe the number of women (not men actually) that came forth hissing at how she is not muslim and she is a dirty girl and deserves no forgiveness.

Except I recall that prior to the scandal on the Shaista show, she had gotten married, and had started to turn more towards Islam. I recall pics of her where she was wearing a dupatta and talking more about Islam and her interest in it.

So why are we chasing these people away?

I will give you a story. When I started college, my first year, I rebelled a little. Because FINALLY I was getting away from the tight control my parents had me in.

I wore sleeveless, I had cut my hair to a boycut. I focused a lot on my make-up and hair.

I continued to read namaz, interestingly thru this time, I was pretty strict about doing the 5x/day prayers. Yes, despite wearing sleeveless.

A muslim group on campus - the local MSA type group - some people who were just normal regular people started talking to me. Not about Islam. They didn’t call me filthy. They didn’t even gossip about me. They wanted to get to know me and they wanted to talk to me, and found me interesting and smart.

They became my best buddies, and I’m still in touch with them, and they saved me from progressing down the wrong road. My friends in my first year were non-muslims, I was staying away from the hijabi/beard group, because I didn’t want to hear the criticism.

Then I mellow’d out. My hair grew back out, I got rid of the sleeveless tanks and spaghetti strap tops, and wore proper shirts when going to class. Even went down the road of wearing kameez on jeans, looking like a hippie.

There were other moments where I slipped into drinking alcohol, and each time it was a muslim friend who watched me and said, why are you doing this to yourself? Stay away from it, and keep to your namaz, and your mind will be healthy.

It was the community aspect of my muslim friends - that they welcomed me - that has partially helped in keeping me muslim.

Other friends of mine are no longer muslim, and it’s because they were subjected to masjid events and desi dawats where they were

  1. ignored
  2. made fun of for being different
  3. gossiped about that maybe they’re gay (they’re not actually)
  4. no one wanting to marry them
  5. girls telling my friends that they need to wear a hijab.

You do crap like that, yes you will drive people away. You can blame it on Jadoo, but it’s not jadoo. It’s us. We are judgemental and we mistreat each other and we drive each other away from Islam.

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Damn it! I’ve done that…chased away people from religion. Partly because religion was a new thing for me as well and I didn’t have a guide and my social circle was very limited.

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That’s ok, and now your social circle is growing so include other people in it.

You know my mom doesn’t read namaz on Jummah at the mosque - like ever. She used to participate as a teacher in the Islamic school at the mosque, and the desi ladies at the end of the day threw parties, and invited EVERYONE at that mosque and never invited her. I remember I was a student there, she wasn’t unfriendly or mean or anything - she just wasn’t part of the “Urdu-speaking/mohajjir” crowd that ran the masjid. We are memon, so they assumed our social circle was different.

One of their sons who went to college with me threw an open invitation to his home for his birthday. I went, and I took my mom since she knows them - she taught at their school.

They all acted awkward, like they didn’t expect us to show up. I had called him earlier and said I’d like to come and he said sure. Turned out I was the only one from college who accepted the invite, and I was there with no one to talk to. The boy and his friends would not speak to me (although he was in “bhai” status, and he knew that).

Even today, I try to get my mom to go to the masjid for jummah and she prefers to read at home when she has days off from work.

She no longer works at the school as a teacher.

I’m just saying. We have yards to go as a community in how welcoming we are at a masjid. I was in dallas for 3 years working, and I showed up to two different mosques, and no one spoke to me. I tried sparking conversation, and guess what I got.

One ethiopian girl who critizied how I held and read the Quran during taraweeh.

One arab lady who spoke no english who went ape-**** over my sleeves. They were three quarters, but not down to my wrists.

And then an arab aunty with 5 beautiful daughters who started speaking tome and was in DISBELIEF I was single, working in Dallas. She just could not understand how my parents allowed it. And then in charity offered to find me a nice Arab husband, I told her sure lady - never heard back from her.

There was one pakistani lady who became friends with me, but then refused to talk to me when it became clear I was not interested in marrying into their family (they had all kinds of stupid requirements like I would have to be home from work at 2).

Who gets home from work at 2?

So she took to ignoring me too.

I do not have one friend from the masjids in Texas.

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I agree with what you’ve said here..that we must make masjids or any gatherings related to deen welcoming for everyone. We must also hold ourselves accountable for our actions.

However, I don’t disagree with what ukhan said either. All he’s saying is that sihr can be used to make one unmindful of deen and its obligations. Now this doesn’t compel one to neglect his religious obligations or go toward sin, it just pushes him in that direction in the form of making the doing of ibadaat seem very heavy or making committing sins more appealing. He will ultimately be responsible for their actions.

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Believe whatever you want, anyone who has researched this matter know better than you.

Project MKUltra

*Project MKUltra — sometimes referred to as the CIA’s mind control program — MKULTRA was the code name given to an illegal and clandestine program of experiments on human beings, made by the CIA - the Intelligence Service of the United States of America. Experiments on humans were intended to identify and develop drugs and procedures to be used in interrogations and torture, in order to weaken the individual to force confessions through mind control. Organized through the Scientific Intelligence Division of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the project coordinated with the Special Operations Division of the U.S. Army’s Chemical Corps.[1] The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973.[2][3] In particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy.4[5][6][7] MKUltra used numerous methodologies to manipulate people’s mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.[8][better source needed]

The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.[9] The CIA operated through these institutions using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA’s involvement.[10] As the Supreme Court later noted, MKULTRA was:

concerned with “the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior.” The program consisted of some 149 subprojects which the Agency contracted out to various universities, research foundations, and similar institutions. At least 80 institutions and 185 private researchers participated. Because the Agency funded MKULTRA indirectly, many of the participating individuals were unaware that they were dealing with the Agency.[11]

Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms’ destruction order.[12]

In 1977, a Freedom of Information Act request uncovered a cache of 20,000 documents relating to project MKUltra, which led to Senate hearings later that same year.[4][13] In July 2001 some surviving information regarding MKUltra was officially declassified.*

Project MKUltra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Neither of these are Shirk, so you know less now then you did before!

I’m pretty sure Jinns will give you falsehood in anti jinn form if that was your weakness.

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Wikipedia…as our source for how the CIA is using jinns for mind control.

hokum.

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Nice try, MK-ultra was a real government program. If you can’t provide facts to deny that, than please remain quite, you’re persistence in rejecting facts is only embarrassing yourself.

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First of all I did not understand the following part of your post so please explain:

Secondly, even if (as per you) it is not shirk, I have seen how much powerful these aalims and jinns alone are without the power of the word of Quran. Someone convinced me to talk to another so called ‘aalim’ on the phone by saying that he will not ask mother’s name but only mine for identification purpose and will only make dua for me. He did not ask my mother’s name so they were right. Only asked to confirm if I had some body marks which he told me. I confirmed that yes it was me. Then he told me alot of things about me including the amliyaat part that someone who wanted to marry me but I rejected has done it on me to separate me from my parents. And he said our whole house and all family members were under such spell. Within the next week, I was told by the same person who had let me talk to him that that aalim had a brain hemorrhage and was in ICU. After that, I could not stay in touch with them. But after 2 years of that incident I got to talk to the same aalim again and he was so scared of me as if his brain hemorrhage was caused because of me. Another ‘aalim’ who told me several things had an accident and broke his arms.

What I mean is, if these entities are stronger than these aalims and their jinns, how can they help people? No entity evil or good is stronger than Allah. So these aalims and their jinns are very weak at the end of the day unless they cure through quran.

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It was meant to say that the religious information you are getting recently is half baked. Meaning you are being extreme and quick to label things as shirk. Which is a victory for bad influences.

Some of these things can have elements which look like shirk al-Akbar (associating partners with Allah The One) and shirk Al-Asghar (Riya-showing off -which most of us suffer from), with regards to shirk Al-Akbar (which is how the word shirk is being used here) we need to be careful about how we use the word. Meaning we should not accuse Muslims of it. The pristine religion shoots us down if we try to do this, it has rules that we need to abide by, including what fatawa we issue (like: x action is shirk)

What you are more likely to encounter is elements of kufr. These can take a hold of a person to such degree that they commit acts of shirk (Al-Akbar) Astagfirullah. However with incidences such as ‘asking humans’ and even ‘asking about unseen’ these examples would not qualify as being confirmed acts of shirk

Now just imagine if we started jumping up and down shouting Shirk Shirk for something that a) Was not Shirk b) We had no right to call it as Shirk

The shayateen would be helping us jump higher and shout more and at the same we would be displeasing Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. We would become oppressors who are closer to shirk ourselves. So this is what i meant regarding jinn [meaning shayateen] giving us something which is on the apparent anti jinn

You are right to Believe in Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala and the attitude you have expressed earlier in this regard is MashAllah. I believe in your ability to gain the closeness to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala and be more powerfully protected then these ‘alims’ and their more powerful entities! As you have said people spoke to you and broke their heads and arms! So we can say a) It is a coincidence b) they told you lies, and for those lies Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala (Your Protector) allowed punishment for them, and for you to be informed about these so that you know that you are protected! its a possibility, right? It can be said that you are so protected that even those liars were given mercy because of you that they received their immediate punishments in this world (unless they are to be punished again - on which i can not comment)

Real power is with Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala alone, Allah Ta’ala gives us some power which is nothing more then a metaphor. So we can not attribute this protection of you to any other then Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. There will be means by which you are protected (eg angels), and possibly a waseela that you have taken (eg Worship, Love etc) or are to take or any other reason which is pleasing to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. So we can not attribute trial and tests nor protection and guidance to any other then Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala.

This all means you need not unduly worry about jinns and the unseen. A crossing of paths with them does not mean Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has allowed them control over you. The Shaitan-the rejected- was scared of Hazrat Umar RadiAllahu Anhu. I reckon they will be petrified of you too

La Illaha IlAllah o La Illaha IlAllah o La Illaha IlAllah o La Illaha IlAllah o La Illaha IlAllah o La Illaha IlAllah o La Illaha IlAllah…

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sighz I really think we are overthinking this.

My problems did not start improving until 1) I started praying directly to Allah, increasing namaz, reading Quran etc for me.

  1. giving myself some Cognitive behavioral therapy tricks.

  2. removing myself from my stressors

And 4) just taking a break from work and from so-called “friends” who were accused by Aalims for this Jadoo.

I totally stopped getting “ishtikharas” done. What I found odd was people were asking me for mothers’ names and people were asking for pictures of my friends to identify them and these aalims certainly just told me what to read Quran wise, no spells or odd stuff. But the “ishtikharas” would tell the future, or give you images of the future. And that’s when I realized I might be on the wrong path. Muslims are not supposed to dabble in any art that foretells future. Someone can tell you what to read from the Quran for prayers but do you really need an aalim for that?

I don’t know I feel ok now. Rishtas are not working out and so maybe I still have some effect on me still who knows but all I know is that there is one God and everything as awful as it was came as a challenge from him and instead of complaining of the negatives I have to keep reminding myself to say thank you and keep the duas going.

I’m much better now months after this self therapy - but when I was seeing this ishtikhara lady , man, things just kept getting worse. I dunno. Maybe she is a Legit religious human being but I don’t think anyone needs another human to act on their behalf to God. We all are able to pray directly, we have no pope , no such thing as confessions. So use your namaz and Dua and just pray to God for everything yourself. And accept that crap happens and sometimes we need to accept responsibility for screwing up our own lives.

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^^From your story there are a couple of red flags that I see…first is they’re asking for pictures. Then someone doing istikhara for someone they don’t know. Also a legitimate aamil (or raaqi) would not tell you who is doing sihr against you. Because there’s simply too much risk (of wrongly accusing someone) in that.

Istikhara is a consultation with Allah. It is done to give you guidance for major decisions. The dua for istikhara itself includes saying that Allah has knowledge and power over the affair at hand while we don’t. So there’s nothing wrong with istikhara for getting guidance for major decisions. However I’d be very skeptical of someone who does it as a business.

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I had an incident happen a couple of weeks ago

I was in my normal place of rest and a thought overcame me that I would be involved in a minor vehicle bump. The idea of these bumps generally gets under my skin because where i live insurance is required for vehicles and ‘no-claim bonuses’ are important. losing these built up no claim bonuses results in hassle. So I have a fear of these things anyway.

The thought that overcame me was powerful and seemed external, meaning seemed as if ‘not from myself’. The feeling was of a car park bump. I started praying for everything to be ok

Any way the very next day I had that bump, luckily there was no damage to the other vehicle and only a trim piece of my car came off! So no insurance claim involved but the incident did happen, in a car park!

It was surreal but not EXACTLY like i was dreading. It was milder. I was relieved it was milder.

Yet I do not know whether the feeling that overcame me was good, bad or coincidental

I have had these ‘feelings’ in the past but usually the actual incidences involved other people. So things like I would pass by an incident that I had been expected for myself. For example seeing a person who falls down, and other really non remarkable things. On occasion these have happened, in a way that i could say the feeling was fulfilled by seeing such and such incident, and on occasion they have not happened at all