younis khan… this kid shuffles at the crease. he shouldnt be in the team. we had ijaz for such a long time and it was a pain to watch him every single time. now this guy. today he got out lbw shuffling.
is this guy on a parchi?
Maybe Younis Khan shuffling too much neutralises Wasti's non-existent foot movement.
Literally and figuratively, there's no proper balance in the bating order right now, unfortunately.
Inzi, Moin, Razzaq etc. can't steady the ship forever.
Well,Inzamam is in one of his rare modes of good form so you dont notice his shuffling across the crease.It wont be long before Haq goes back to his old ways and starts getting out LBW again. He shuffles across and loses his balance to be caught in front of the wickets on many a occasion. Another culprit is Mohd Wasim. As for Wasti, he should'nt be in the team anyway. Enough said.
The only batsman from Pakistan's current crop who do not shuffle across too much and are rarely LBW are Saeed Anwar, Yousef Youhana and to a lesser extent Azhar Mahmood.
Bring back Saeed!
i can understand these guyz included in one days but tests? atleast miandad should know this.
m. wasim plays with a straight bat and i think has the technique and temparament to be successful in tests. but younis khan and wasti as openers against ambrose and walsh is a joke on any pitch. might as well send mushtaq ahmad and saqlain to open batting and play some more bowlers.
Saeed is still injured. His kneee is still hurting and he could'nt even finish net practice in Lahore. I dont think he'll be fit in time for the second test, even the Asia Cup for that matter. As for M.Wasim, he plays with a straight bat but he's not an opening batsman. They hang him out to dry when they send him in to open. He's a middle order player and he should be played at 3,4 or 5. Wasti cannot perform unless the opposition is Sri Lanka .
A better option would have been to take
Aamir Sohail along in the absence of Saeed.
Granted, Aamir does not have half the talent of Saeed Anwar but he is still experienced and a gutsy performer. There are also other openers like Shadab Kabir, Ali Naqvi who got a 100 on debut against South Africa and was promptly dropped. Both these players can deliver more than Wasti, thats for sure.
Unlike the other batsmen, I dont think Inzi shuffles out of bad technique. Its partly coz of his sometimes lazy choice of shots(or lack therof) and partly being undone by a good delivery. His shuffling cant be compared to the junglee atrocioty of Ijaz. Wasti's inclusion is a wastage of air expense.
Anwar does get lbw, not from shuffling, but from sometimes leaning into his shots. Especially against bowles like McGrath, Gough and maybe Srinath if you can call him a proper fast bowler.
Exactly maniax, it's unfair to ask M.Wasim to peform from the opener's slot. He's not very flashy outside off and has a straight bat; these should be used to strengthen the middle order and not wasted by sending him to open.
mania x yaar... dont we have enough flashing outside off bats already in the team. we need someone who plays with a dead bat. someone like shoib mohammad who doesnt lose his wicket by playing flashy shots.
i know its a pain to watch someone who doesnt score that often but it also sucks to watch them lose wickets from both ends due to flashy stroke play. if it wasnt for our lower end coming good almost ALL the time we wouldnt be making more than a 100 in tests or onedays.
Elmo
You called it right. Saeed does get out LBW once in a while reaching for the baLL, while going for the cover drive but that only happens when he tries to drive through mid off rather than cover or squarer.So, he still does not get out LBW that much at all as compared to Haq or Moin.
mundyaa,
I agree. But who would you suggest? Wasti is totally useless. Mohd Wasim looks solid but he seems to have lost all confidence in himself which is not surprising considering what the selectors have done to him. Younis Khan is anything but solid,Youhana is known to chuck it all away, Saeed is a stroke player but he's a class player - he can go either way - however he's an opener and he needs support in the middle order. I think Shadab Kabir was very solid, he's a left hander who could open if required but prefers playing one down. He was rock solid against the Poms in 96 if you remember?
Right now - we dont have a batsman like
Rahul Dravid and thats what we need.
Believe In Angels.
Laterz,
ManiaX.
Well pointed out Elmo. Anwar does leans in sometimes, but that is not as unacceptable a thing as Ejaz's fidgety movements. "junglee" hahah, that's the correct word.
Mania, Kabir did very well against Eng but I do not think he is made to open. He is one of the best LH in the domestic scene, and I have played against him when he was at Karachi Gymkhana. But opener? He isn't aggressive enough and he is prone to the moving ball. But he should be in the team instead of wasti and other failures.
domestic cricket isn't really a good measure to judge a bat. a good batsman who makes a lot of runs back home wont necessarily be successful against SA or Aus or even westindies and england. We waisted so much time on folks like sajid ali and now wasti and co. just because they score runs in domestic cricket.
our best bet is to get some young players with good techniqe and give them experience and confidence and stick with them. We should persist with folks like Hasan raza and M. wasim cos they have the technique. Otherwise we will keep on producing bats like ijaz ahmed who can only play well against srilanka, india and zimbawe and obviously domestic.
Another problem with our bats is for some reason they refuse to learn. International cricket is all about learning about different bowlers and then adjusting yourself. Miandad was constantly learning.... he didnt have the prettiest stance and style but he was always kept thinking. Nowadays starting from the most expereienced to the least this element is missing. So we see the batsman getting out making the same mistakes over and over again. inzi getting run out... anwer edging the balls miles outside off... afridi while hoiking the ball out of the ground... youhana getting lbw cos he forgot to offer a stroke. I hope miandad transfers some of his thinking abilities into these guys.
Maybe domestic cricket is not the benchmark to judge a batsman's ability but how else will he get noticed (apart from sifarish etc) in a countruy where cricket is played all over tha place. That a bat can perform or not on foreign wickets can only be seen after he's given a chance. True, we should stick with the crop who have excellent technique like M.Wasim, but not for too long that it hampers the team's performance. We have loads of telented players back home who are waiting to be given a chance to prove themselves.
You're abcolutely right about the learning part. Some of them don't strive to better their technique as much as they should. In the summer of 96' when pak and ind both had rubbers against eng, I noticed plyrs like tendulkar, jadeja and dravid asking miandad for advice on eng seaming wickets and general advice one early morning at edgbaston. The pak players weren't even at the ground yet, and when they arrived they were chattering away, "haan yaar, ye yaar, and woh yaar" Tendulkar was * still * getting pointers from miandad. Mind you the ind series was all but over, while the pak one hadn't even started at that time. Of course he wasn't at that time but now that they have him as their coach, the should take full advantage and try to gain as much knowledge as they can.
[This message has been edited by Elmo with headphones (edited May 08, 2000).]
See, Miandad is a good coach and he was a great player. But you must remember, the batsman who come into the Test or ODI side are players who have been playing for 18-19 years at least. They cannot change their technique. Sunil Gavaskar once said that it is impossible to make a batsman who has been playing all his life one way to change his technique. What a coach can do is to help him improve it and not change it. Now, most of our batsman do not have a sound technique at all hence improving it will only do a bit of good and that is not whats needed. I dont think Miandad should be coaching the International side, to be honest - I think he should be in charge of training the Under 19 and Under 15 boys and teach them the proper technique when facing fast bowlers and spinners. When Miandad, Imran, Zaheer Abbas were playing - Pakistan was known to play spin ver well. Now, our batsman cannot even play high quality leg spin. With the exception of Saeed Anwar and Moin Khan - none of them are willing to use their feet against the spinners. Warne, Mcgill, Muralitharan and Kumble have all destroyed our batting with spin. So, teaching the young and future players how to play is what Miandad would be better at than trying to change the way the current lot plays, since they have been playing this way for all their life.
Maniax, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", very true. But if they've gotten the chance to be coached by miandad, why shouldn't they take advantage and try to improve their approach somewhat. Even if it does them a wee bit of good, its something. No change, just try a shot at improvement wherever they can.
Your suggestion for miandad and other giants to coach at the grassroots is very commendable. That way they should have a sound tecnique when they break the scene, domestic or international. I think that's one of our bigest losses. Having people of as high a calibre as Miandad, Imran, Zaheer Abbas etc. the system doesn't utilise their knowledge and insight as much as they could. Even if the reasons are various, politics, personal reasons, or whatever; but its a pity.
One thing that I've noticed is that most people don't pay too much attention to views aired by ppl like Hanif Kureishi. I find his sugestions very worthy of being implemented by teams, he has an incredible ability to point out mistakes in approach and both psychological and technical advice. Very similar to Geoffrey Boycott's ability to identify technique and Imran's ability to spot talent. I know an Indian who played Ranji Trophy briefly and he told me they used to always scrouge around kureishi's analyses if it applied to their own players. When he was around, they would invite him to their ner sessions to point things out and he was happy to oblige. I was pretty susrprised a club in south asia would do such a thing you would normally find being practised in more structured cricketing areas like Aus and SA. Apart from the bigger aspecs, it's things like these that sometimes make a lot of difference, and we should practise them more often.
i dont buy the theory that a batsman cant change his stance, style, shots and or technique. i can give you many examples. but m. bevan of australia has got to be the best one. In his early days he used to be the slowest of the run makers. Saeed Anwer with a shoib mohammad run rate. Couldnt play half the shots saeed anwar could play. But had the correct technique and played dead straight.
Today, he is the best bat australia has got. He is the sole reason they were able to beat Pakistan. Every single match ppl like wasim, shoib, waqar and saqlain just could not get the guy out. He scored at will against all the bowlers. Today, his range of shots and shot selection is better than that of saeed anwers.
A living proof of how he evolved from being a mediocre bat to a class act in a very short time by constantly improving and learning.... and shows you what results can be acheived by persisting with people who have the technique.
Elmo I wouldnt say entire Pakistani team consists of folks who do not want to keep learning. Pakistani bowlers have done a good job in this dept. New folks like shoib, razzaq and a. mehmood are able to reverse swing and are quite successful. So wasim, waqar and the rest of the lot has done their part by sharing their knowledge and experience.
Its just our bats who refuse to learn for whatever odd reason.
The art of reverse swing is not uncommon anymore and both Shoaib and Azhar were using reverse swing even before they hit the International side. Wasim and Waqar may have given them tips on the proper way to use it, but it's not something that is so uncommon anymore.
Btw, I disagree with your opinion on Bevan. You cannot even compare him to Saeed Anwar.
Anwar is the best opener in both ODI and Test matches. Bevan is a middle order ODI player.
He does not have half the shots of Saeed nor does he have his talent and ability. As far as technique is concerned, despite over 9-10 years playing top class cricket at domestic and Intl level Bevan still does not have the ability to play short pitched bowling which is why he isent in the Test side. What I would say about Bevan is that he is a tough cricketer who works hard at whatever game he's got.
Elmo,
There was another chap..Billy Ibadullah..he was held is high regard by both the Poms and the Kiwis. Ken Rutherford was coached by him. Ibadullah was considered a master at teaching young players to play straight..but we ofcourse sacked him as coch after a poor series in Sri Lanka :)
Believe In Angels.
Laterz,
ManiaX.
mundaya = i agree with most of the stuff u have mentioned so far....
Mania u r quite right that Anwar Bhai is the best present opener with only problem being his fitness level otherwise Anwar would have had more ODI centuries then Tendulkar....But thats understandable because he is getting old
i hope he stays till Imran Nazir settles in well.......
About pakistani batting line up as a whole i think the only problem is that
PAKI BATTERS DONT KNOW THEIR WEKANESSES AND STRENGTHS TOO WELL
This is what my opinion is.....we see player like Bevan so successful against best bowlers in the world because he knows exactly what he can do and what he can't......
I may be wrong....need feedback from my expert brethereen-e-islamis :)
c ya guys
Asif :)
mania yaar... so u cant compare a bat who opens to a bat who comes two down? when one or two early wickets fall down saeed anwer faces an exact same situation as bevan does. so the comparison is very much on.
but if u dont like bevan then we can talk about dravid. from his early days of cricket this guy has also come a long long way. i didnt see him much in his early days but he was also just another batsman who played straight and had no shots. He was dropped brought back into the team several times because of his slow runrate. Today he averages not less than any body else and in terms of technique is better than other indian bats.
surdar yaar, thats why we gotta get some batsman who can think and bat at the same time. whatever their strengths were at the domestic level were good enough to get them to international level. If they are failing at the international level then that means either they arent playing to their potential or they need to increase their potential and apply themselves better to be successful at that level.
mundayaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ki jaana mein kon
mundayaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ki jana mein kon
na mein momun vich vaseeta
na mein...........
I agree with whatever mundaya says