Should We Say No To Shariah Courts?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

ak47,

thank you for your response. Dear friend, the problem remains that you are not differentiating between proof and proving, and conjecturing.

1) You see, God if there is one is not self evident hence the need for proof and proving. The first degree of truth is that it is self evident. So belief in god does not belong to this category.

2) Since God is not self evident to us therefore unless he proves himself to us, we cannot know him or anything about him. This is second degree of truth. Again we see that belief in god does not belong to this category either because just as we are not witnesses of god nor is god our witness.

3) This being the case, we are only left to conjecture things ourselves. That is what we do regarding evolution theory ie interpret availble evidences the best we can. We do so in case of evolution theory because nature always remains constant according to our undeniable experience ie nature works naturally. Yet we have nothing to base our conjecturing upon when it comes to god creating things or doing this or that. That is because god is not expected to do things naturally but supernaturally, for if we did expect god to do things naturally then we would become confused as to whether an event that took place was natural or supernatural. Thus even this category of circumstantial proof cannot be used to prove existence of god. You must realise that circumstantial proof relies totally and utterly upon our own experiences in life and we never experienced anything like a god creating a universe etc etc. On the other hand we do experience things causing other things to happen in natural world hence evolution theory becomes valid but not the theory about supernatural interventions.

4) From another angle, god is claimed to be absolutely perfect, having no need or want and so for such a god to create the world be in conflict with his nature of existence. Likewise, the knowledge of god is said to be perfect and so is his ability to do things. Again it shows a conflict within the nature of god, for he who knows what is there to cannot have choice to do otherwise because that will prove imperfection in his knowledge. So you can see there are many problem that need to be overcome before one could even conjecture the existence of any god.

5) As for the verses you have quoted, thay are meaningless because they are not proof of anything.

6) Organised religions are mechanism for exploitation that were brought about by some in position of power to exploit the others. For example, we tell our children that you should do this or that or that should not do this or that, for god will throw you in hell. Children being born ignorant and having little experience of life listen to adults and behave. The case is likewise between rich and poweful clever people and the poor and destitude simple minded people. These people were mentally controlled by those people for their own ends and they are still beimng used even today whereever religion exist with such ferver. Our beloved homeland has been an example of that. The power of religious and tribal chiefs or feudals has been messing up the masses at a massive scale.

regards and all the best.

42

mmughal

You have not refuted the rational argument in stead you have diverted from the answer and gone onto self evidence?

in Point 2 You are now comparing human beings to god which is ridiculous argument, if god was human astagfirullah then he is limited just like a human being is. Also Islam with the quran is there to be refuted the challenge is open produce one ayah like the quran and the entire system of islam would be refuted! what challenge has secularism set to test it?

Point 3 Scientific thought is is not definite knowledge there is always doubt, always the possibility of a revolutionary new theory overturning the old. Rational thought is different to this. It gives us definite truths about existence and does not need a microscope or a telescope for success.

If you are refuting the rational evidence of a creator then what is your evidence against that, is it the evolution theory about monkey magic?

Point 4 is standard seculairst argument but usually applied to xstain bible but never the less, allah(swt) has given human the ability to make choices they are in 2 spheres one which they control and one which they have no control over. Sphere one for example there is glass of alcohol and glass of water i have ability to make choice the water or the alcohol and i will be judged on my choice. Sphere 2 i have no control over for example i cross the road and car hits me i have no control of that it is out of my control and that is my fate and i cannot be judged on issues out of my control.

Point 5 Actually you quoted numbers of verses without even giving there meaning you just posted a load of numbers without any explanantion of the menaing of these ayahs just wholesale said these refer to conjecture? In quran i just quoted the ayahs that quote allah(swt) existence which is relevant.

Point 6. If you tell children they will burn in hell then that is easy scare tactic, But i am not a child and neither are you so your argument here is irrelavant.

If you want to attack organised religions then go ahead i am not here to defend relgion as you know it but when you attack the ideology of islam your secular thoughts will be refuted because islam is based on the rational thought. The ruling secularists in Britain, US, France are the new pharoahs who go around the world exploting evertything and everyone from the continent of Africa to oil fields of the middle east based on lies about WMDs the secualrist change laws to benefit corporate companies not for the average person on the street that is why there is such misery in countries that implement secular laws including some muslim countries.

Secular states have been unable to produce harmony between peoples. Western secular rule was intended to end the terrible religious persecution that existed in European theocracies for centuries, but secularism has failed as miserably as religious rule. Secularism's shortcoming is seen clearly in the homelands of secularism in the West; violence, discrimination and persecution upon Afro-Caribbeans, Hispanics, South Asians, Muslims, Jews and other minorities is so common that it is almost accepted as part of life. A report entitled "Backlash: When America Turned on its Own", released to coincide with the six month anniversary of 9/11, describes an increase in hate crime against South Asians, accompanied by several legislative proposals from the Department of Justice based on the idea that even legal permanent residents are national security threats. On paper, the Muslim legal permanent residents of America are American citizens and the constitution gives them the same rights as the Christians, but in practice, the American authorities and people treat them as an enemy within. Two of the most vicious enemies of the Muslims, India and Israel, are secular democracies wherein minorities have been persecuted regularly for over fifty years. The list of those minorities who possess horrific testimony of persecution is large and growing- Muslims of Kashmir, Ayodhya, Gujarat and Assam; Sikhs of Amritsar; Ethiopian and Arab Jews of Israel; Christians and Muslims of Israel; Untouchables throughout India.

Secualrism as these examples show is nothing but poison.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear Readers,

Salaams,

Pakistani constitution is Islamic. We do not need to appoint more moullanas to pay and do the same job as our 73 constitution.

Do not copy iran. They are saying aloud and aloud we are trying to experiment if their islamic government works. We all know it is not working at all. Rather it is in the process of crupting the simple ,nice, islamic moullana. Now they fill their stomach with lots of money in the name of ushar or khums.

Pakistan is better than them.
Most of the pakistanis are very very shareef . There is not any problem of girls running or boys running from homes or any other unislamic act.

[/QUOTE]

sokoon

Pakistan is a secular based country. The government does not implement shriah law in pakistan this is clear for past 50 years. Even though first lines of constitution say pakistan should be based on islam!

The islamic system has a comprehensive government structure this idea that you have hundreds of mullanah is a cartoon image propogated from the west and like in your example they base it on Iran which is also another country which is secular if you look at Iran government it is based on French republican system not islamic system the only laws which they have taken from islam are the ones related to marriage, death and issues like this from the social system of islam everything else is secular if you don't belive then read for yourself.