Bearing in mind that 15 of the 20 hijackers who brought down the twin towers were from Saudi Arabia, and that many Saudi citizens are probably involved actively in the war against the US, isn’t it time that the people of Saudi Arabia were liberated from the ruling monarchy?
Again, the fact that liberating Saudi Arabia would also mean that the oil fields could be secured could mean a dramatic fall in oil prices giving a bumper boost to the US economy wouldn’t it make sense?
Iraq has the 2nd largest proven and mostli unexplored oil reserves. And they are well protected by the Americans now, as we saw in other thread :D
On the other hand, there is more than enuff US military presence in Saudia to practically takeover the oil fields there. The coercian is working well for the Americans so far and they seem content with the present state of affairs. Besides the Saudia regime wants to keep Americans in their good books for their own benefit obviously.
I was thinking more in terms of liberating the people of Saudi Arabia. I don't believe there is a functioning demeocracy there, and from the war on terrorism perspective, the vast majority of hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.
let's get our facts straight..
To date, the real identity of the hijackers is unknown. All we have is the sensationalist media splashing pictures and naming names.... pretty much like the prime time news today crying WMD every time they see some containers in Iraq.
Even FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on CNN that some of those behind the terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication.
Let's not regurgitate it like a fact, the identity of the hijackers is unknown.. for crying out loud, six of them turned up alive in Saudi Arabia!
Now on the question should the US 'liberate' the Saudis.. i'd say "hell yeah".
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
let's get our facts straight..
To date, the real identity of the hijackers is unknown.
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And to date, we still don't know if the earth is flat or round :D
With your knowledge of geo-referencing I doubt if you personally could prove either chooch.
PA,
But I thought if you repeated something often enough it became true;
Kareem ain't a tosser
Kareem ain't a tosser
Kareem ain't a tosser
Kareem ain't a tosser
Nope suppose I'm wrong.
I think Pakistan should 'accidentally' testfire a unke payload on Saudi Soil. Take out the eastern province and spare the central and western region. It will kill some camels but think of that as a collateral damage.
Instead of US running around liberating nations, some other countries should share the burden.
NYA,
it's the USA who goes round liberating nations, Pak doesn't even pretend to be the world's policeman.
Why don't you make your mind up? The Iraqis have been liberated and you were happy, now why not wish the same for the Saudis?
Judge…if you promise not to complain when Saudis are liberated, then I will support their liberation. But if all we have to hear about is everyone's complains, then we should act accordingly. We don’t like to annoy people, you know. Deal?
Pakistan doesn’t pretend to be world's policeman? I agree, it pretends to be on the other side of law enforcement.
If Saudis can produce WMDs, I will support teaching them a lesson. However, at the moment, they can't even produce a dipstick to check Camel's blood pressure. They have a long way to go.
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*Originally posted by Judge^MentuLL: *
I was thinking more in terms of liberating the people of Saudi Arabia. I don't believe there is a functioning demeocracy there, and from the war on terrorism perspective, the vast majority of hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.
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That's accurate, no functioning democracy in good ol Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But if the US were to topple its regime, and allow the vast majority of Saudis to participate in 'fair and free elections', guess what type of govt. the majority of Saudis would vote in. My guess is a govt. that's less keen to cultivate its friendship with the US.
My vote is that any government "freely elected" in SA wouldn't be a free government at all. They would probably be more repressive than the current government and not a democratic government at all. Elections do not make a democracy.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
They would probably be more repressive than the current government and not a democratic government at all. Elections do not make a democracy.
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Sorry just out of curiosity, why do you state that? Maybe i am missing something here, but do you believe the majority of Saudi citizens would vote for a more repressive govt. than the current one - and if so, why?
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
That's accurate, no functioning democracy in good ol Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But if the US were to topple its regime, and allow the vast majority of Saudis to participate in 'fair and free elections', guess what type of govt. the majority of Saudis would vote in. My guess is a govt. that's less keen to cultivate its friendship with the US.
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I have a suspicion that you are correct in your conclusion Nadia. But I'm sure we draw very different inferences from this conclusion.
Assuming the US sacrificed the blood of its young men and women to liberate and free them, the most likely outcome is that "free and fair elections" would install governments of different fanatics running on an anti-American platform. Rather than welcome their freedom, many would probably resent the US even more because it took US military power to do it and they would feel somehow emasculated and impotent before the great satan. In other words, many value their anti-Americanism above their own freedom.
I would respectfully suggest that the brainwashing of the Arab/Muslim generations by their repressive rulers has been a complete and total victory. Perhaps the only country and people who would have the power and the moral desire to free them have been painted as the enemy and so we have little choice but to sit back and simply say "Why bother?"
Seminole: I entirely agree with you and it closely tracks my post above.
It could be that decades of brainwashing have still been unable to make the people forget the fact that these puppet regimes were installed and supported by the US in the first place due to it's own National interest
It would be in the interest of the resident of today's Saudi Arabia to seek a government that takes care of the national interest of Arabia (I doubt if the name Saudi Arabia would be used once it's liberated) first.
That may not sit too well with the 'liberators'.. who underneath the sob story of 'sacrificing young men and women' actually are there to control the natural resources and establish a global hegemony.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
It could be that decades of brainwashing have still been unable to make the people forget the fact that these puppet regimes were installed and supported by the US in the first place due to it's own National interest
It would be in the interest of the resident of today's Saudi Arabia to seek a government that takes care of the national interest of Arabia (I doubt if the name Saudi Arabia would be used once it's liberated) first.
That may not sit too well with the 'liberators'.. who underneath the sob story of 'sacrificing young men and women' actually are there to control the natural resources and establish a global hegemony.
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PA: Perhaps you could provide some authoritative sources for the proposition that the Saudi monarchy was installed by the US as a puppet regime. The history books I've read indicate that it was established around 1932 following twenty years of fighting amongst the Arabs living there. The Saudis did this to themselves. Please don't give us credit for it.
Also MV, the Brits did not want to explore for oil and it was Occidental and Standard Oil (now called Exxon) that agreed to do the oil exploration on the invitation of King Abdul-Aziz. Had it not been for the Americans, Saudis will be riding camels (and that too backward). They owe everything they have to the Americans. American should claim all the oil fields it developed.
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*Originally posted by myvoice: *
PA: Perhaps you could provide some authoritative sources for the proposition that the Saudi monarchy was installed by the US as a puppet regime.
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myvoice, English is my second language. i had said "these regime*s* without pointing at the Saudi regime in particular. I had also said 'supported' and yes.. the US has invaded countries for the reason, but never ever raised an eyebrow at an important enough level on the gross human rights violations of the Saudi regime.
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Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
myvoice, English is **my* second language. i had said "these regime*s* without pointing at the Saudi regime in particular.
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Well gee. The thread is about Saudi Arabia so I figured it was reasonable to conclude that you included SA within "these regimes." Maybe you could identify the specific puppet regimes the US installed.
Yeah right! Today America liberated Iraq, tomorrow they liberate Saudia Arabia, then Iranian liberation from Ayotollahs, then India liberates Pakistan, Russia liberates what it wants, China liberates ...... World War III !
Nobody has the right to do this! Let the people decide. Educate them through media and bring change. Peace Peace Peace. We all have to live on this planet. Who knows, the fires started in the liberated lands reach the liberators' homes tomorrow!
Had it not been for the Americans, Saudis will be riding camels (and that too backward). They owe everything they have to the Americans. American should claim all the oil fields it developed.
The reverse is also true, Americas development as Super Power is closely linked to the abundant supply of Arab oil. The Americans did not develop the fields out of any altruistic purposes.