Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
You lot want to legalize addictive substances that cause people to lose families, homes and livelihoods.
What are you all republicans?
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Uh…yes. Because it works. If we were Republicans we would enforce the war on drugs. which penalizes minorities and those in the lower income bracket, while helping our buddies who run privatized prisons by handing out 5 year sentences for a handful of pot.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
^ Wow - did not know this.
"The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well."
Also, Netherlands, while on paper, has laws against drug use, has less of a punitive and more of a treatment oriented approach.
But the Portugal study blows my mind away. It really works, it appears. Thanks Ghost - nice link. Learnt a lot.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
It works how? You do realize that 2001 to 2006 was an economic boom period in Portugal. I would love to see the figures of drug abuse since the start of the EU melt down and I am willing to bet that substance abuse has increased dramatically in the past year alone.
Now back to the subject at hand. Making addictive substances legal does not limit it is addictive nature. More so it makes an addictive mind altering substance available to a large population without any concept of checks and balances. Additionally drug abuse increases the likelihood of domestic and physical abuse.
Lastly what drugs are you referring too? If you mean all drugs I will personally fly you to Farah so you can see what opium does to a 5 year old kid.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
It works how? You do realize that 2001 to 2006 was an economic boom period in Portugal. I would love to see the figures of drug abuse since the start of the EU melt down and I am willing to bet that substance abuse has increased dramatically in the past year alone.
Now back to the subject at hand. Making addictive substances legal does not limit it is addictive nature. More so it makes an addictive mind altering substance available to a large population without any concept of checks and balances. Additionally drug abuse increases the likelihood of domestic and physical abuse.
Lastly what drugs are you referring too? If you mean all drugs I will personally fly you to Farah so you can see what opium does to a 5 year old kid.
You're assuming that those most susceptible to drugs are deterred by laws. Clearly the War on Drugs proves otherwise. People will use drugs regardless of the law, and then are unable to find help because of said laws. I never said anything about the addictive nature of drugs, merely that regulating drugs, and putting money into treatment, is more effective than useless crusades. There are no facts to back up your claim, meanwhile my claim is backed up by an actual case study. Your point about economics may be valid, but as of right now, Portugal proves that legalizing drugs is more effective. And that's more important than your personal views on legalization.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Illegal drug use and the economic recession--what can we learn from the existing research? - PubMed - There is your economic case study. You will have to pay for the full study but the conclusion is of relative importance in this discussion:
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/online/annual-report/2010/boxes/p24 - Europe is already working on the premise I pointed out. Economic recession leads to an increase in drug abuse. I gotta run to a meeting but to say these are my personal views is just wrong. As can be seen by the links above from a 20 second google search.
Your first two three sentences adheres to my point as well. The hardcore users who use drugs do not care of its legal or not. The addictive nature over rides common sense in this regard. And legalizing it will just provide a dangerous and addictive substance a market for more abusers.
As I previously asked what drugs do you want to legalize? Heroin? Opium? Cannabis?
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Illegal drug use and the economic recession–what can we learn from the existing research?Bretteville-Jensen AL.
SourceSIRUS (Norwegian Institute for Alcohol and Drug Research), Post Box 565, Sentrum, 0501 Oslo, Norway. [email protected]
AbstractBACKGROUND:Much research on the use of amphetamine, cocaine and heroin employs individual level data and analyses variations in drug use by factors like personal characteristics, socioeconomic factors, and the social environment. Less attention is given to how these individual responses inter-relate with key macroeconomic variables. From a drug policy perspective however, it is important to also understand the consequences for drug use and drug users of changes in the macroeconomic conditions. As the world is experiencing an economic recession one would like to know whether it will affect the number of drug users and/or consumption frequency and volume amongst established users.
METHODS:There are different channels through which a recession could influence drug consumption; here the main focus is on how an economic downturn may influence drug prices and drug users’ incomes. We briefly refer to relevant economic theory before reviewing the research literature.
RESULTS:A fall in drug prices and income seem likely. Empirical studies confirm drug users’ price responsiveness. Only a few studies have dealt with income elasticity amongst this group.
CONCLUSION:As the price and the income effect may pull in opposite directions, the full effect on drug use is difficult to predict. Still, it seems likely that an economic downturn of the current magnitude could increase the use of drugs.
This study states the full of on drug use of a recession is difficult to predict. It says it seems likely there could be increased use of drugs. This study is really not conclusing anything - not sure how you are makng a bet based on this. Ghost has provided real data.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Hers is exerpts from European study
"Existing drug-related problems can be affected too, either directly, with poorer drug users turning to more efficient and risky routes of administration, or indirectly, through a reduction of services due to cuts in public spending.Assessing the full impact of the current recession will take time, notably because of the multiple mechanisms described above and because the effects will unfold over years. Now, however, governments that are considering cutting expenditure in the drugs field need to take into account the cost-effectiveness of existing measure"
Again, no conclusions. However, I appreciate the link you provided. It is very crucial to note that study recommends that governments do not cut spending and not reduce services. The way Portugal is handling this, money saved in enforcement/prosecution can be well spent providing services - that is, on treatment.
But the links were quite informative - thanks.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
No Southie. What it states is that due to the price/income relationship the full effect of drug use is difficult to predict. Meaning that drugs can be recreational as well as addictive. I am not sure the if the economists differentiated between addicted users and recreational users. But one thing they would have done is taken the affect of person income and the ability to purchase the drug vs its actual supply. In a recession the demand for drugs would increase. That could cause an increase in price. However those addicted to the drugs would still buy the drug due to their addiction rather than their ability to support their habit based on their income and other financial resources. The variable factors are numerous in this case due to the addictive nature of the product.
Of course I have yet to read the study so I can not say what they looked at. But generally put the full effect is not seen due to the relationship between the price and income. Due to its addictive nature. Addicts will still but the product regardless of their income.
Southie your question was should one legalize drugs. Not only government health policy. Then again you do not point out which drugs should be legalized either.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
What is wrong with you?
isnt it the same logic? through which many people are advocating for drugs being legalized?
^ You sir, are a re-tard (to quote Alan from the Hangover).
He's a re-tard
thanks for the reminder
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
@aceones - may I safely assume you are against legalization :) ?
yes southie you got it right unlike few
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Legalize Marijuana.
Alcohol has more negative effects on society than Marijuana does. A toke here and there doesn't hurt anyone. Heroin, Cocaine, Meth, etc... They will F U up.
And I agree, a less punitive approach is the only way to go. You can't lock addicts up for shooting up. I mean, how is that ever going to help them? I just can't comprehend the logic behind jail terms for drug use.
Gidsy read a book by Ben Elton called High Society - it's about exactly this, legalising drugs.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Peace CM
Republicans will use these methods …
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Well duh. Who ever confused me for a peace loving hippie?
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Interesting. But this study takes all of the EU into account, including countries where they pursue what are, in my opinion, failed drug policies. The key difference in a country like Portugal, would be that the drug users who want to seek help have a place to turn to.
So to answer Southie’s question: drug use should not be a crime, but drug distribution should be.
As for your question: I think marijuana should be fully legalized, but other drugs such as heroin and cocaine should be dealt with as above.
Again, we agree on this. Addicts will use regardless. However, those who start using should have a place to turn to for help. The real criminals are the drug lords. So again, drug use should not be a crime, as long as the government has treatment programs in place as well. This will free up law enforcement to target the distributors.
I am not advocating being able to go to Farah’s and buy cocaine. I am saying that should someone obtain cocaine illegally, they should not be prosecuted, rather, they should be treated.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
No Southie. What it states is that due to the price/income relationship the full effect of drug use is difficult to predict. Meaning that drugs can be recreational as well as addictive. I am not sure the if the economists differentiated between addicted users and recreational users. But one thing they would have done is taken the affect of person income and the ability to purchase the drug vs its actual supply. In a recession the demand for drugs would increase. That could cause an increase in price. However those addicted to the drugs would still buy the drug due to their addiction rather than their ability to support their habit based on their income and other financial resources. The variable factors are numerous in this case due to the addictive nature of the product.
Of course I have yet to read the study so I can not say what they looked at. But generally put the full effect is not seen due to the relationship between the price and income. Due to its addictive nature. Addicts will still but the product regardless of their income.
Southie your question was should one legalize drugs. Not only government health policy. Then again you do not point out which drugs should be legalized either.
CM - good discussion - I am learning a lot.
This study (at least the abstract) does not provide much information. however, I agree with your and the study's hypothesis that in a recession, drug use may increase. As you pointed out, this would put upward pressure on price of drugs - but the addicts may still buy.
It is very easy to determine if Portugal's progressive policies have worked in this recession. There shoul dbe data available for Portugues population drug use over the last 20 years, which would include the time before they legalized drugs, the time after legalization. For the legalization period, it would include data pre-recession and during recession.
That should answer any doubts (or strengthen your argument).
The question I posed - should drugs be legalized - without specifying which - was to not put any constraints - and let folks provide their input.
Ghost appears to have the reasonable solution - make distribution of hard drugs illegal, but dont punish use of such drugs, but treat them.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
My personal opinion - legalize all the drugs, regulate distribution just as alchohol, cigarettes, tax its use, take the criminal element away, and also provide treatment.
Take the underworld out of the equation.
Yes, I have heard some of the drugs can be terribly bad. But criminalizing it has not worked - the evidence is overwhelming.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
Well duh. Who ever confused me for a peace loving hippie?
That's good then ... so you should not have a problem if posters here want to cause people to lose families, homes and livelihoods. :p
You lot want to legalize addictive substances that cause people to lose families, homes and livelihoods.
Re: Should drugs use be dealt as a crime in the country of your residence?
legalize pot ! // .. it doesnt do anything ..