Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
Besides, we are talking about education, not budiling of things. Even though some of the great architectual wonders of the world were in the ME and Asia.
We are talking about advancements and education - where the Islamic culture once dominated. Does warm weather dull your brains as well, prohibiting you from seeking knowledge?
It starts a slippery slope of what other attributes one can attribute to warm climate inhabitants if you use that as reasoning.
i use it as reasoning(it being we never needed to build things), it may open avenues to other attributes. lets hear them, its not a slippery slope. its the truth.
advancement is coming, as we drift with the pressures of the world economy. the pressures of the world economy are brand new for us! infact its brand new for everyone but those who created it.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
first comes the money.. then comes education..
Israel isn't built on 'education'.. it's built on exploitation.. land grabbed from the Arabs, knowledge and money and protection cheated out from the hands of hard working people in the USA..
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So you mean to say Jews were planted. No sir, read history. Jews have been living there since time immemorial. Jesus was a jew. Jews have been mistreated everywhere they went. Rememebr 10 lost tribes of Israel. A country where they found solace was India. Most of Kashmiris are descendent of jews. They are in South India, Western India as well as North Eastern India.
nope.. Muslim's in history were quite educated.. they just didn't stay in control of printing their own money and let the goldsmiths take over.
collaboration... there's enough knowledge and resources available in the Muslim world should they start pooling it and helping each other out.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
first comes the money.. then comes education..
Then how did anicent Muslims become educated since they weren't goldsmiths?
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Israel isn't built on 'education'.. it's built on exploitation.. land grabbed from the Arabs, knowledge and money and protection cheated out from the hands of hard working people in the USA..
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Then why aren't the Egyptians nearly as successful? They are getting plenty of knowledge, money and protection from the US. The Jews worked their butts off. Maybe because they were educated and the Arabs weren't, but it still boils down to being educated.
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nope.. Muslim's in history were quite educated.. they just didn't stay in control of printing their own money and let the goldsmiths take over.
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If they were that educated then they should have found a way to print their own money to stay competitive and educated.
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collaboration... there's enough knowledge and resources available in the Muslim world should they start pooling it and helping each other out.
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No other group in the world, never mind 1.4 billion strong, has the concept of 'ummah'. There is unity among Muslims like no other group.
You don't need hundreds of millions of people or dollars to emphasize education in a society.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
advancement is coming, as we drift with the pressures of the world economy. the pressures of the world economy are brand new for us! infact its brand new for everyone but those who created it.
The decline of Muslim dominance came hundreds of years ago when capitalist principles started to become prevelant in western countries. It is not brand new.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
^^ the whole of the muslim world isnt struggling with money. for some people of some countries(not just islamic) eg pak, india, the pressures of the world economy are brand new.
generally
the jews want money!
the whites want money and to work for a good living!
the browns just want to live a respectable decent life.
you tell me which of the above philosophies is going to find the next hit product or service?
'if you seek you shall find'
if you need you shall seek
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
maybe the exact words could have been better from my part. but this whole thread is about stereotypes. many countries in the world dont have the educational infastructure to educate its people. its not just an islamic problem. would it even be a problem for anyone if the current situation in the middle east wasnt around. usually education serves a purpose. for some calling for an increase in education in islamic countries is supposed to lead an increase in military capability, intelligent jihad. im sure thats enough to scare you off away from the idea!
live and let live is the best way.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
This is why we need more Islam. Islam is a perfect way of life that enjoins the good and prohibits the bad. It is a monotheistic faith. If muslims truely implemented Islam in their lives they would be as wealthy as the usury sucking leeches. I dare anyone to deny this point!
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
backwardness of muslim world and the reason for such backwardness being lack of useful education and excessive religious fervor is beyond doubt. Anyone who tries to belabor that point and root causes is simply foolish.
However don't forget much of 'muslim world' as well as most of 3rd world (muslim and non-muslim) missed the entire industrial revolution, being colonies for the west. that does account for a lot of backwardness.
What is unforgivable is that non-muslim countries even from the 3rd world and colonies are now shaking of the dust and making progress while th e'muslim world' is still mired in shia sunni kills, roadside bombs and trying to define what is real Islam and what is not - who cares! even those blessed with oil resources are still backward because all they do is give the oil moneys to the jewish cousins in Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley to invest and earn more
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
No, separation of relgion and state are necesary for a succesful country. Look at our neighbors to the east, they did not combine those 2 together, and are now propsering. This holds true also in the muslim world, for example Turkey made a differenantion between the two a long time ago, and now look at it, its one of the few truly succesful muslim countries
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
this is total bs. in fact this is the kind of thinking that has led to current sorry state of affairs where a muslim cannot board a plane without getting nasty looks.
what perfect way? half the mulla crowd that claims they know the 'perfect way' cannot even agree with the other half which way is the perfect way.
Why don't you guys realize most people within muslim community don't speak out their minds as to what they eally think when they hear this nonsense is fear complex and not acceptance? That doesn't make them any less muslim but fear complex does and has killed any creativity!
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
i totaly agree with you. everyone chooses what type of wealth one accumulates. i wouldnt like to speculate on how much sawab muslims have accumulated but theve not been too keen on the capitalist system to their credit.
each to their own
garam - you totally missed syeds point. please explain how and why. the last time i took note of one of your comments you were dissing people with aggressive vigor for blaming the US for everything, your next few comments just blamed the US for everything. you lineup well with both crowds you attack! for that reason i must ask you - are you stupid?
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
Vroom - a bit too revved up here!
I don't "side" with anyone and just express my opinion based on what I feel is right on an issue. Sometimes the US is right and somethimes others may be right.
Many a times people blame US because it is so easy to do - but if that tendency is holding them back from doing something themselves, don't you think they deserve to be so pointed out?
I really hope nobody feels "attacked" as you say -
But then you should know all this yourself and here I am taking you seriously and explaining to you...hm, may be that IS stupid. I will strive to get better at this
I don't think I missed Syed's point at all but in deference to you I went back and read what he wrote again and had the same reaction as the 1st time. It is laughable to think that a few sweet statements such as 'we need more Islam" is somehow a solution to the very serious and factual report that started this highly introspective and necessary thread.
What do yo want? sweet words that suck you in, make you feel better and drag you down the dante's inferno of chaos, violence, poverty and dictatorships or bitter words that force you to sit up and think.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
Many a times people blame US because it is so easy to do - but if that tendency is holding them back from doing something themselves, don't you think they deserve to be so pointed out?
that sounds fair enough
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I really hope nobody feels "attacked" as you say -
But then you should know all this yourself and here I am taking you seriously and explaining to you...hm, may be that IS stupid. I will strive to get better at this
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lay off the molvis or mullahs as refered to on the net. if you dont respect them or a call to islam such as syeds then its fair to say your pakstaniyat is questionable. if you have a point then please make it using calm words and your point will be respected.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
I actually want to respect the molvis and mullahs as human beings. But they have to start deserving such respect. Many of them have and continue to cause horrific harm to individuals and the society by spreading OPINIONS and DESIRES in the name of religion; many of them try and block PROGRESS in the name of convention but conveniently fail to explain that CONVENTION is not RELIGION. Many of them spread false hope that their INTERPRETATION is the right one when in fact it is only their VERSION.
I hate them, those do these things, with a passion. Just like the Catholic priests who abused children. They have broght such chaos.
Do I respect those who don't do these things? Ofcourse. But they don't have to be a molvi for that.
Beyond that whether you respect my point or not will be of interest but not of any concern.
Re: Shocking: sad statistics - Muslims vs Rest of the world
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I actually want to respect the molvis and mullahs as human beings. But they have to start deserving such respect. Many of them have and continue to cause horrific harm to individuals and the society by spreading OPINIONS and DESIRES in the name of religion; many of them try and block PROGRESS in the name of convention but conveniently fail to explain that CONVENTION is not RELIGION. Many of them spread false hope that their INTERPRETATION is the right one when in fact it is only their VERSION
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the symptoms you talk of are not the fault of molvis. what you have to remember is that these issues are over emphasized at the moment in the news and everywhere. we come from a country where kids do ''rattaa'' reading. imagine the effects! the infastructure is just not there yet to produce a politically correct society to your expectations. plus the establishment of jihadi schools to fight the russians has left its mark. theres many people blocking/debating progress in various ways, the molvi angle has a value added dimension to it from todays media. these issues we need to deal without hate and without blameing local molvi or local teacher. everypart of our society is corrupt. dont sex up dosiers by over emphasizing mullahs
improvements are made without hate - fact. and if we can get the president back to thinking about the reforms needed in pakistan we'll all be happier.
