Shi'i Myths and Legends: Appointment of Hadhrat Umar

**APPOINTMENT OF UMAR TO THE KHILAAFAT BY ABU BAKR [radhiallaahu anhuma] **

Q: The Sunni viewpoint that leadership after Rasulullah (sallallâhu alayhi warasallam) had to be decided upon through consultation, and you use two verses of the Qur’aan to prove their point. However, it is an undeniable fact that the second khalifah, 'Umar (RA) was appointed by the first khalifah, Abû Bakr (RA) and not chosen through some method of consultation. This indicates to me that Abu Bakr (RA) went against the Qur’aan by not consulting the people, and 'Umar (RA) also went against the Qur’ân by allowing himself to be put into a position of power in an illegitimate fashion, i.e. appointment by Abu Bakr (RA). How do you reconcile their action with your theory that the matter of leadership must be decided by consultation with the community?

A: You make a mistake where you write that “it is an undeniable fact that 'Umar radiyallâhu 'anhu was appointed by Abû Bakr radiyallâhu `anhu and not chosen through some method of consultation.” Sayyidunâ Abû Bakr’s appointment of Sayyidunâ 'Umar radiyallâhu 'anhumâ was not entirely arbitrary. It was preceded by a process of consultation with the prominent leaders of the Muhâjirûn and the Ansâr. Furthermore, Sayyidunâ Abu Bakr radiyallâhu 'anhu only appointed a successor when he was given a
mandate to do so by the Sahãbah. Ibn Qutaybah ad-Dînawarî records in his book al-Imâmah was-Siyâsah:

When the time for Abû Bakr’s death drew near he ordered that the people come assemble. He then addressed them, saying: “O people, you see the condition destiny has brought me to. However, you need to have a man who will take control of your affairs, who will lead you in salâh, who will fight your enemies and distribute your booty. If you so desire you may get together, consult amongst yourself and elect the leader you want. Alternatively I could do my utmost to choose a leader for you. By Allâh, besides whom there is no god, I will do my best for you.” Then he cried, and they cried with him. They said: “O khalifah of Rasûlullâh, you are the best and the most learned amongst us all. Therefore, choose for us.”’

Even with this mandate Sayyidunâ Abû Bakr radiyallâhu anhu did not arbitrarily appoint a successor. Although he already had Sayyidunâ 'Umar radiyallâhu 'anhu in mind to succeed him, he first consulted the senior Sahâbah and found out their opinions about the appointment of Sayyidunâ Umar radiyallâhu 'anhu. This is recorded by Ibn Sa’d in his book al-Tãbaqât al-Kubrâ:

When Abû Bakr’s illness intensified he called Abd ar-Rahmân ibn Awf
and asked him: "Tell me about Umar." Abd ar-Rahmânreplied: “There is nothing you can ask me about which you yourself are not better acquainted with.” Aba Bakr said: “And if… *?” `Abd ar-Rahmân said: “By Allâh, he is even better than what you think of him.”

Then he called Uthmân ibn Affán and told him: "Tell me about Umar." Uthmân said: “You know him best.” Abû Bakr said: "So according to that, Abû Abdillâh... *" Uthmân replied: “By Allâh, as far as I know him he is better person on the inside than what he is on the outside. There is amongst us no one better than him.” Abû Bakr told him: “May Allâh have mercy upon you. By Allâh, if I was going to leave him I would not have passed you by.”

Abu Bakr also consulted with Sa`îd ibn Zayd Abul-A’war, Usayd ibn
alHudayr and other Muhâjirûn and Ansâr. Usayd said: “By Allâh, I regard him as the best one after you. He is pleased with what deserves pleasure, and angered at what calls for anger. What he hides is even better than what he shows. This matter can go into the hands of no one abler than him.”

As is wont to happen, there were some people who were apprehensive of Sayyidunâ Umar radiyallâhu 'anhu on account of his sternness. Their concerns were relayed to Sayyidunâ Abû Bakr radiyallâhu anhu by some of the Sahâbah. The narration in Ibn Sa’d continues:

Some of the Sahâbah heard about Abû Bakr’s private meetings with Abd arRahmân and Uthmân. They also came to Abû Bakr and their spokesman said to him: “What will you say to your Lord should He ask you about your appointment of Umar over us despite knowing that he is so harsh." Abû Bakr [who was lying down] said: "Make me sit up. Are you trying to influence me by invoking the fear of Allah? May he perish who is guilty of injustice in this matter of yours! I will say: O Allâh, I appointed the best of your people over them.’ Tell this to who is behind you.”

Sayyidunâ Abu Bakr radiyallâhu 'anhu was already sufficiently convinced that the majority of the Sahâbah were in favour of Sayyidunâ Umar radiyallâhu anhu. It was therefore that he dismissed the apprehensions of
this minority. But the process was still not over. He called Sayyidunâ
Uthmân radiyallâhu anhu and dictated to him the deed of appointment. Even this deed was not arbitrary. Before coming of effect it was subjected to the approval of the people. Ibn Sa’d continues:

Abû Bakr ordered him to seal the deed. He came out with the sealed
document. With him was Umar ibn al-Khattâb, Asîd ibn Sa'yah al-Qurazi and Usayd ibn Hudayr. Uthmân said to the people: “Will you give bay’ah to him whose name is in this document?” They responded: “Yes.”

Sayyidunâ Abu Bakr radiyallahu 'anhu, as ill as he was, presented
himself to the people for the final ratification of the appointment:

Abû Bakr radiyallâhu anhu appeared at the window of his house and addressed the people saying: "O people! I have appointed someone. Are you happy with that?" They replied: "We are happy, O khalîfah of Rasûlullâh." Ali radiyallâhu anhu stood up and said: "We are not happy, except if it is Umar." Abû Bakr radiyallâhu anhu said: "It is Umar." Then they all accepted it, expressed their contentment with it, and gave their bay`ah.

Al-Istiqaamah

Shaykh M Taha Karaan**

yaar i am afraid the post will cause some tiring arguments. Why not just leave this thing be? They were all 1000 times better then us, what does it matter now that who became caliph and who didn't? We are not responsible for that, we are responsible for our own action.

Re: Shi’i Myths and Legends: Appointment of Hadhrat Umar

A long argument and conuter argument backed up with no references… How easy it is to make storiest these dayzz**

^^Yes…And the best part is, that people follow them blindly…Take for example Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani…Misled so many…Or the fact that some Shias believe that Islam has not been completed and that the Holy Prophet :saw: left an unfinished faith for the ghaaib Imam to complete…:nauzubillah:…It’s a fact, some believe in it but not a majority…

Stories will be made and people will believe them…However LUC’s post is full of facts and figures…If the results tally then of course it must be fact…He’s mentioning a momentous moment in history…The changing of the Khilafah from one RG Khalifa to the other RG Khalifa…

I am sure the references for all these can be found if we were to see a website of Shaykh M Taha Karaan.

Another lame unrefenced accusations… just to spread propoganda and disunity within the muslim ummah … go and read my previous posting specially in the forum of armughal

mazhab nahin sikhaata aapas me

where himeself quoted how some sunni mullah’s promote killing of shia’s… and you are another example to promote such hatredness without any refences…

If you ever had bothred to read it I quoted the ayat of quran

“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)

and also mentioned my personal opinion even though quran mentions that Islam is complete sunni’s believe on a hadith that Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. left quran and sunnah but didnt mention the correct source of sunnah and a person has to go through a number of hadiths to look for so called authenticity and an imperfection of this was seen… where Saif ul Islam who feel proud to call himself extermist mullah type quotes an hadith to justify one of his believe and on the other hand when it contradicts his other belives he called it dhaef … just to meet his interests…

where as I also pointed out shias have the hadith:

“It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise).”

and history is the witness it was ahleybait who defended Islam from the first day .. no matter its the battle of Khyber or the battle of Uhad when none of the companions stood up agaisnt Umar Ibne Abduwad except Maula Ali… and Imam Hussain who sacrificed his life and his family in the way of Allah just to defend Islam from evil people like Yazeed…

and thats the purpose of Imamat … Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. is the last Prophet on earth and Imam are the defenders of Islam and the last Imam, Imam Mehdi A.S. is going to come and spread peace agaion.

But no Mr. Lawajawab on his agenda to promote hatredness for shias has too cook new unrefenced believes… whereas seems like his own religon is imperfect…

I would advice Mr. Lajawab that Islam is not a joke… please don’t spread un refencesd rumors when it comes to religon… all it does it promote hatred ness go and read how extermist some sunni mullahs can go in the thread of armughal i quoted earlier… Islam never promotes killings…

This lady used to throw stones at Prophet and one day she didnt and when acquired it turns out she was sick and prophet Mohamamd went to her for her aiyadat and she liked his act so much that she accepted Islam thats the true Islam… prophet didnt even kill her who are some extermist sunni mullah to give fatwahs to kill… and then promote hatredness without any proper refernces.

^^…Oh, so what you are saying is that you are of those that believe Islam is complete with the Holy Prophet :saw:…Good for you…:k:

Only if you would have bothered to read what i quoted earlier i said quran and Alheybait people who defeneded islam and preached it after the Prophet … we don’t go though number of hadiths and choose one that fits our interest and when it contradicts your other believes call it dhaef…

Let me ask you if Quran and sunnah were enough to defend islam, why those people ( yahudi or isaey.. cant remember right now) wernt convinced and quran asked for a mubahila…those people stayed their for days and Prophet preached them ayat of quran and as far as sunnah is concerned Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. was there but in the end resolution Allah called for a mubahila and why was it Imam Ali A.S., Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain and Bibi Fatima Zehra were the only people accompanying Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. when it came to curse the liars, why didnt any other companions came forward not Prophet took his companions with them… and why were they convinced when they say Ahley Bait … they wernt convinced with Quran and sunnah???

if Quran was enough in khadaq why did Imam Ali A.S. was the only one to go to defend Islam… Prophet could have just taken quran…

Why did Imam Hussain stood up against yazeed… he could have left it on Quran but it was his duty as an Imam wasnt it?

Care to give up references about what you quoted earlier about shia’s believes being incomplete to carry on with your anti shia propoganda… Or was it your own made up stuff to promote hatredness like other sunni mullah’s who like to take judgement in their own hands and ask to kill shias even though its Allah who is the judge and give punishments to everyone who diserve it

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Houston_kah_Don: *

Only if you would have bothered to read what i quoted earlier i said quran and Alheybait people who defeneded islam and preached it after the Prophet ... we don't go though number of hadiths and choose one that fits our interest and when it contradicts your other believes call it dhaef.......

Let me ask you if Quran and sunnah were enough to defend islam, why those people ( yahudi or isaey.. cant remember right now) wernt convinced and quran asked for a mubahila...those people stayed their for days and Prophet preached them ayat of quran and as far as sunnah is concerned Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. was there but in the end resolution Allah called for a mubahila and why was it Imam Ali A.S., Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain and Bibi Fatima Zehra were the only people accompanying Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. when it came to curse the liars, why didnt any other companions came forward not Prophet took his companions with them... and why were they convinced when they say Ahley Bait ... they wernt convinced with Quran and sunnah?????

if Quran was enough in khadaq why did Imam Ali A.S. was the only one to go to defend Islam.... Prophet could have just taken quran....

Why did Imam Hussain stood up against yazeed... he could have left it on Quran but it was his duty as an Imam wasnt it?

Care to give up references about what you quoted earlier about shia's believes being incomplete to carry on with your anti shia propoganda... Or was it your own made up stuff to promote hatredness like other sunni mullah's who like to take judgement in their own hands and ask to kill shias even though its Allah who is the judge and give punishments to everyone who diserve it
[/QUOTE]

Just for your information Houston bro, Shias aren't not considered to be Muslims or followers of Islam by majority of Pakistanis... Unfortunately, Pakistan was a predominately a Sunni movement....

[QUOTE]
Just for your information Houston bro, Shias aren't not considered to be Muslims or followers of Islam by majority of Pakistanis... Unfortunately, Pakistan was a predominately a Sunni movement....
[/QUOTE]

wrong... shias are considered muslims.

Proof: The MMA, voted in by NWPF majority, and Blauchistan, have Shia Scholar, and the rest of the leaders accepts that shias are muslim.

Cairo University, classes shias as a fifth school of thought, in Islam.

In the world, Shias and Sunnis are living side by side, as muslims who have fiqi differences (e.g. differences in schools of thought).

The only people who consider shias kaffir, and note also think as sunnis to be in the state of kufr, as well as people from Jamat-e-Islami, are:

WAHABIS- note not all but a few misguided ones. ( i say misguided as they think they are right and all other muslims living side by side, are kaffir.) - theyre are a handfull. eg. Sipah -e-sahabah in pakistan, Al qaida and their cronies - they follow a diversion of islam, created by the CIA.

They call the 98 % of muslims (shia and sunni) kafirs. - so i wonder!!

u mulz it seems are amongst them.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mulz: *

Just for your information Houston bro, Shias aren't not considered to be Muslims or followers of Islam by majority of Pakistanis... Unfortunately, Pakistan was a predominately a Sunni movement....
[/QUOTE]

Apparently Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. said after him there will be 72 0r 73 sects in ISLAM but didnt call anyone kafir....

and on what bases does sunni mullah who can't even defend their belives calling other kaafir
don't we pray
don't we fast in ramzan
dont we perform Hajj
don't we pay zakat
......
which of the wajibat's don't we do

why calling other kaffir when we full filll all the wajibats of Islam....but no some sunni can't justify their own believes as seen in the forum i referenced earlier and when you can't ... either call them kafir or order to kill them...even though to preach to kill other sects doesnt reflect true islam Prophet never asked to kill the girl who even used to throw stones at him... because of some extremist sunni mullah's who are promoting terrorist acts the name terrorism is given to muslims.... which no where is true islam.. go and fix your believes before calling other kaffirs..... Mr

TAQIYYAH?..kia pata us nay taqiyah kia ho…
any way most shiaz dont know about their religion apart from ah-l-e-bait debate…they know nothing else about islam…

:hehe: kahan kahan say loug ajatay hein..How old are you ? ten?..

Word of advice to you and your fellow bao bihari, be careful what you say about other beliefs otherwise you might have to pay a huge price after life..

“the majority” he is talking about is “Lashkare Jhangvi”, “Sipahe Sahaba” etc.

Bao Bihari you over looked my reply let me quote it for you

Its been pointed out several times what taqqiyah is but nothing seems to get in that empty head of yours… go and read the website again when is taqiyyah done in the ligh of quran and prophets…

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/10.htm

and looks whozz talking a person who is been who himself can’t defend his own belives and been saying bunch of lies…

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114543&referrerid=0

or who doesnt make any sense…

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=115193&referrerid=0

Bao Bihari you dont even know your own religon… or should i say too ignorant what would you know about shiazzz… go and learn Kalima first before you start preaching others… and next time please watch before you you open that illiterate mouth of yours… Alhamdullilah i know my religon which is ofcourse Islam and is proud to be a follower.. . and dont support any terrorism… unlike some others extermist sunni mullahs…