After the last bombing in London…i noticed a HUGE difference in how people in our communities are talking about the events and the why…
I have noticed less tolerance or acceptance of guys like this bombing innocent people (there is still support of people in Afghanista/iraq fightin a freedom fight). More willingness to say how could they do that? End their lives, leave their children orphaned and kill innocents..
It’s interesting…
Do you notice it?
Why do you think it has occured?
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
I'm beginning to believe in Maddy's conspiracy theory for these very reasons. _
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
I didn’t notice anything since my own opinion, and those around me, have not shifted a bit…murder is murder.
For once the media seems to have decided to do a better job covering the reaction.
Plus, the Muslim community in the UK is more organized, and has a better moutpiece. Muslims in the west stink at PR, we are a rather young community. The UK community is a bit more mature.
Plus, the UK doesn’t seem to have as many anti-Muslim bigots as the US does, esp. the neo-cons who want to pin everything from ozone depletion to earth quakes to poverty on Muslims.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
My family and friends were always clear-cut on the issue of killing innocent civilians (whether it be by suicide attacks or other means) that they are completely forbidden and the perpetrators deserve Hell but those who fight combatants (and those directly responsible) who have invaded their lands, their's is a legitamate struggle.
Some of my friends could understand what might lead the terrorists to do what they do but they never condoned their actions rather always condemned them, and these are young school going 16-20 year old kids, you ask a white kid of the same social background about killing innocent civillian Iraqis or Afghans and he'll tell you just blow em all up.
Sadly even some mature non-Muslims still defend the killings of innocent civilians by their armies in Iraq and Afghanistan saying it’s for the greater good, what greater good? That's EXACTLY the same logic terrorist clerics use to defend their actions..
Fair enough Muslim countries have been persecuted by tyrants but those tyrants such as Saddam Hussein were created by USA in the first place and it wasn’t half as bad under them as it is now at the hands of foreign armies…
The only posible reason we are having terrorist attacks is because of the Wests foreign policies and their invading of Muslim lands, I'm not a terrorism expert and that's why I tend to swing back and forth between the conspiracy theory and this, but if it really isn't a set up by them Jews then this is the only reason, no Muslim is mad enough to kill people just for a laugh and expect doeeyed-virgin-nymphs and wine in heaven, even the pea brain terrorists would have that much sense.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
if we read history muslim rulers use to invade other muslim dynasties, countries for their selfishness and desire to conquer and dominate the resources of other weak muslim nations, so if america has gone to iraq or afghanistan with the slogan of democracy and reforms, nothing bad with that, i think people who resist donot want any good for their people and country and secondly they are not fighting for any relegion they are using relegion name and they have same selfish desires of their own.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
"The only posible reason we are having terrorist attacks is because of the Wests foreign policies and their invading of Muslim lands"
No, the only reason we're having terrorist attacks is because some crazy morons want to keep ppl united in the name of hatred. Nothing is more functional than hatred when you want ppl to stick together. And of course, because of this hatred the inability to build a stronger nation that can face the world properly. They blow up a building and are bombed back to stone ages, they try again and another country is targeted - If any man made weapon was strong enough to wipe out an entire nation there wouldn't have been any Jews left on face on this earth. Muslims should concentrate on building stronger nations.
Anyway, the change was there for a few days, then the superficial sympathy with Palestinians and Iraqis etc took over and now its okay that ppl were killed in London, even though chances are that more Muslims were killed at Edgeware road than goras.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
in my eyes its not terrorist attacks, its WAR.
this did not start at 9-11, the american daada-geeri has always been there.
maybe u dont know the facts and the details of this whole process.
PPL`s thought are limited because of the media.
We need to think why this happened? every problem/outcome has a root cause. And the key lies in that "root" word. Where is it , it all went wrong? it is not the 9-11. 9-11 was the "pusher start" that Bush & Co was waiting for.
You can study the bosnia case and many other things and maybe find an answer.
thousands died in american operations in iraq like the one we saw in fallujah. We are talkin about civilianz here, and not the soldiers but the real innocent ppl.
when u attack someones country dont expect they will sit on their ass and dont do anything ,u went to someone else's country and attacked them and killed their innocent civilians, they are simply giving u a taste of your own medicine by waging war in UK
UK govt should have expected that their war would come home, and look how it has made headlines all over the world,although only 56 ppl died..count the number of deaths in iraq, all those poor kids that suffered during UN sanctions and all those missiles that US bombers mistakingly threw at the wedding parties in afghanistan..these are all casualties of war...and in war civilians die...whether in Iraq or Afgan or UK.
"And of course, because of this hatred the inability to build a stronger nation that can face the world properly. They blow up a building and are bombed back to stone ages, they try again and another country is targeted -"
sabah are you on drugs? none of the iraqi civilians blew up any building in any country, but US did blow up lots of buildings in iraq and killed many civilians.Also still there is no concrete proof that any of the 9/11 hijackers had any links to afghanistan or taliban or osama.
dont believe everything they tell u in the media
apna dimaagh bhi kadi istemaal kar liya karo, dont be blind
open ur mind
the truth is out there.
namastay
jay shri ram ji ki
jay haathi walay ramji ki
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
"Also still there is no concrete proof that any of the 9/11 hijackers had any links to afghanistan or taliban or osama."
As long as this thinking is pervasive in the muslim world, there is no hope for the muslim people. You cannot claim to be part of the ummah for convenience. either you are with them or against them.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
Babakhan, haha. Guess this is serious enough reply to your query.
PD, BabaK is just killing time.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
I agree with sabah. These people just need excuse for murder. If not Palestine, then something else. Once you find joy in killing, your humanity and Islam with it goes away. They have become killing animals. And don't come back and tell me what Americans are doing or not. We should condemn their wrongs, but first our own wrongs need to be stopped. Only then will Allah help us and remove injustice against Muslims. But if you disobey Allah and try to compete on killing people, we are doomed.
And the shift you are seeing is because many British Muslims are now seeing terror first hand and they used to be the most fanatic.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
Did prophet Muhammad PBUH ever ever ever tell u that killing women and children is justified in so and so situations. He gave us very specific war rules and killing women and children wasn’t in it.
Maybe u don’t want to see the facts and ponder over the whole process
are u talking about urself, cause i can’ tell
yes ur correct the key lies in that “root” word. babakhan. enough said.
Why don’t u try to kill the military personal for a change.
again go read rules of war as stated by prophet Muhammad PBUH.
yes they should have. I mean what were they thinking. Muslims who claim to be peace loving people, who pride themselves in following Islam as stated in quran and sunnah, whos rules of war don’t incorporate killing women and children will actually do such an act. They should have known better. Muslim are as scumbags as they r.
No she isn’t a pathan or afghany
same to u, open ur mind and u shall see the light. AMEEN.
This is how i see it.
U muslims are morons. along with the westerners. U ain’t any different than the rest of the scums in this world PERIOD
What ticks me off the Ohh so righteous attitude of so called muslims as if they never did anything wrong. poor innocent muslims and the evil west is out to get em. Give me a break will ya.
If u condemn the grozny massacre u have to condemn the chechen act as well. U can’t go around bitching about grozny and yet don’t mention chechen stupidity.
If u want to talk about double standards then Muslims are a perfect example of it. They are very good in overlooking the crimes committed by muslims and eager to point out what others are doing and crying foul. what a bunch of whinners.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
This is way to abstract. Why not New Zealand? Or Singapore?
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
There is a massive assymetry between the two. The Grozny massacre was done by the legitimate government of the Russian people. Elected, no less. The acts of terrorism are unsolicited, and unwelcome. One can hardly fault either Russian or Chechen civilians across the board, but let’s be honest here: the Russians are much more to blame for the acts of their government than Muslims are the acts of free-agent terrorist who act on behalf of no one but their own ideas, and are responsible to no one.
Needless to say, all governments behave much more alike than not. At lesat to the credit of Muslims, they for the most part have no say in what their government does!!!
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
the fault is with muslim nations. their leaders are either dictators or tyrants and as THOMAS JEFFERSON said that "the tree of freedom need blood of patriots and the tyrants".
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
Tom Jefferson was a slaving white man who could care less about the Brown man. To hell with him.
You’re right about the dictators, though…
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
Yippy...i love how the conversations all end up the same...
My pt was not right or wrong..everyone knows killing is wrong but my sense in America pre-9/11 people felt that indv. like the london/nyc bombers were in some way justifed in thinking that way..the shift has gone to not seeing any justification in what they are doing..
AS for PR american vs. british.
Brits are an older community in england BUT also less educated and integrated with the rest of the community, in Am. it is different and the muslim community here has grown up alot since 9/11...but it takes time.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
it is different and the muslim community here has grown up alot since 9/11...but it takes time.
^Beaten with slippers?
amelie you must have hung out with some real nasty fkers who condoned attacks on innocents in the US and UK. I hope you have distanced yourself from them.
If not, 'shift your thinking' or your arse pdq.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
Amelie
I think more and more people are becoming more vocal. The decay that our society saw did not happen overnight. The least educated and least knowledgeable people ended up being imams ate masjid and madrissas..why..because no one else wanted to do those backwards, low paying job. We would not interact with those people socially yet allowed them to lead prayers and to teach kids about religion. All the issues present were ignored as "not my problem"
well it has become a collective probleam for all of us, and our collective will would have to fix it. It is not going to be done overnight but it will happen if we avg muslims stand up against the self declated thekay daar or religion, the kind we often see here with their yip yap.
Attacks in pakistan have been taking place for a long time between the idiots from both sects, and until and unless it was imapcting people personally they did not care. I can see that for people there survival is more important and people go on ignoring ethnic and sectarian strife. For many people who immigrated, making it in their new land and integrating was important and people working insane hours did not have time to get involved or speak up about the mess going on in our communities. priorities, pressures and expectations mixed with a dose of apathy did the trick.
The fact is we need support from those around us. US and UK should engage moderate (or as I say average muslims) and help them take back their community centers, mosques and all.. banishing idiots like HT from distributing garbage.
We can not let extremists dicatate our image and define Islam or muslims to those who dont know it.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
Talk is cheap. There are plenty of problems in each of our neighborhood communities (muslims) if you look around. All you have to do is pick one and try to find a solution. If we each did that, then we wouldn't be complaining so much.
Re: Shift in Muslim thinking?
I haven’t noticed anything like this. Then again, I haven’t heard much talk about recent events.