shia's and sunni's

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Ok Ok I apologize. But I never directly called a liar

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

But anyways, I apologize.

**

Man, that’s so apparent in many threads here.

You may want to read these threads. :

DEFINE “Wahhabism” : http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004806.html

WAHABISM EXPOSED : http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004687.html

Why have the “Wahhabi” threads been locked ??? : http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004841.html

Yemeni Shias v/s Rafidi Shias - A Clarification : http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004828.html

You may want to pay close attention to the posts by the Shia members here. Also, in general, keep an eye on the posts (and the mentality) of the Shias.

Browse at your leisure !

============ ======================== http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia.htm

==================== ==================

** AWESOME SITE !!! **

22

I have read some of the contents of the website you have given and all I can say is: I don't believe what they have written:

12.) Faathima should complain about Ali's big stomach, no wealth and bad features.

But aren't Shias like supporters of Ali (RA)?

1.) They have their own Quraan.

I don't think so. I have been to Shi'ite mosques and thier Qur'ans are the same.

1.) Most dirty and polluted left over water is that of a sunni.
2.) Not permissable to marry sunni because they are Kaafir.
3.) Cannot eat animal slaughtered by sunni.
4.) Sunnis created from soul of Jahannam.
5.) Shia's created from soul of Jannat.

I seriously doubt these points and other members can back me up on this.

There are many many other instances but here is my point:

Shias recite the same Kalima , thier faith in one Allah and his messenger is also the same, thier Qur'an is the same and they also have the same 5 pillars of Islam. Now that is all the requirements for being a Muslim. Like I said I have been to shia mosques and I have never heard them curse the sahaaba in salaat... now either your website is wrong or they were all pretending for me which I have a hard time believing. Therefore my question still stands.

In response to the Wahabi bashing, well that is wrong just as Shia bashing is wrong.

23

Nobody is trying to DIVIDE Islam! It is already divided and muslims themselves are doing a 'bang-up' job at it.

24

[quote]
Originally posted by mufakkar:
**I have read some of the contents of the website you have given and all I can say is: I don't believe what they have written:

12.) Faathima should complain about Ali's big stomach, no wealth and bad features.

But aren't Shias like supporters of Ali (RA)?

1.) They have their own Quraan.

I don't think so. I have been to Shi'ite mosques and thier Qur'ans are the same.

1.) Most dirty and polluted left over water is that of a sunni.
2.) Not permissable to marry sunni because they are Kaafir.
3.) Cannot eat animal slaughtered by sunni.
4.) Sunnis created from soul of Jahannam.
5.) Shia's created from soul of Jannat.

I seriously doubt these points and other members can back me up on this.

There are many many other instances but here is my point:

Shias recite the same Kalima , thier faith in one Allah and his messenger is also the same, thier Qur'an is the same and they also have the same 5 pillars of Islam. Now that is all the requirements for being a Muslim. Like I said I have been to shia mosques and I have never heard them curse the sahaaba in salaat... now either your website is wrong or they were all pretending for me which I have a hard time believing. Therefore my question still stands.

In response to the Wahabi bashing, well that is wrong just as Shia bashing is wrong. **
[/quote]

Kalima is lil diffrent, because ive lived 10 years right next to imam bargah in lahore..

they add " Ali walli Allah" next to " La Ilaha Illah-o- Mohammad Rasool Allah"

Correct me if im wrong..
Now I respect Hazrat Ali(RAZ) by all means. but just mentioning the diffrence..

Shia's Claim that Quran is not complete, well i have heard this claim many times, and i just wonder how can they challenge the words of Allah.

Shia's dont marry Sunnis. that is for sure.. atleast i have never seen any...

rest of the points i dont know much...

.::. ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ .::.
Allah-o-Akbar

,_ ,
(O,O)
()
-"--"--- To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target

25

[quote]
Originally posted by Adbulmalick:
**Nobody is trying to DIVIDE Islam! It is already divided and muslims themselves are doing a 'bang-up' job at it.

**
[/quote]

u mean ISLAM or Muslims ????

I beleive Islam is a deen/a life style given to pplby Allah, taught and preached by Prophet Muhammad(SAW). It is we ppl who are divided...

.::. ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ .::.
Allah-o-Akbar

,_ ,
(O,O)
()
-"--"--- To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target

26

[quote]
Originally posted by FlameZz:
** u mean ISLAM or Muslims ????

I beleive Islam is a deen/a life style given to pplby Allah, taught and preached by Prophet Muhammad(SAW). It is we ppl who are divided...**
[/quote]

The fact is - Islam & Muslims are divided. You are welcome to your views on it. Islam is not ONE way of life; it is MANY way of life.

You raise the following points:

[quote]

Kalima is lil diffrent
[/quote]

It is an appendage to the Common kalima that AFFIRMS that 'Ali is the core of shia faith and WALI of Allah.

Sunnis might as well have added their OWN APPENDAGE with words like:
"Sahih Sitah are WALI of ALLAH"

[quote]

Shia's Claim that Quran is not complete, well i have heard this claim many times, and i just wonder how can they challenge the words of Allah.
[/quote]

Is that the official position of the shia faith?
Of course Not!

CHECK out what the Official sunni publications are saying re: Completeness of the quran:

1)'Umar is quoted as saying:
"Nobody should assume that I (Umar)has the complete quran. How do they know what the complete quran is? They should rather say - that I ('Umar) have what HAS SURVIVED".

This is SACRILEGOUS and COMING from Caliph Umar.

And,this hadeeth narrated by 'Aisha saying:
"There was an ayath e: RAJM or stoning but was eaten by the household goat"

So - according to the sunnis - the Quran is INCOMPLETE.

More, seriously - with the goat eating part of the quran NEGATES Allah's promise to SAFEGUARD the Quran.

Tell me - What do you have to say to that?

27

Shias don't marry sunnis <---- I have seen different cases of shia sunni marriage. There used to be a big thing about Syeds not marrying Non-Syeds but that too is on the decline.

28

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
**I don't care about what other people believe, but, I do not like two things:

(a) when they abuse and curse people I respect, and,

(b) when they try to impose their beliefs on the majority.

**
[/quote]

Does that mean I should dislike sunnis coz:

1) They are high-headed and intolerant to other's belifs?

2) They go out of their way to degrade and spread slander against other belivers?

3) They try to imporse Their thoughts on others?

And since when was the majority right? Anyone can preach their belifs and anyone can express their thoughts.

29

*Does that mean I should dislike sunnis coz:

1) They are high-headed and intolerant to other's belifs?*

WE ARE? You are totally wrong there. Shias are intolerant, because they can't get enough of cursing and slandering people who lived 1400 years ago!!! And if you have any facts to prove your statement, please post.

2) They go out of their way to degrade and spread slander against other belivers?

Look who is talking! Who spreads lies and slander against sahabah and other "believers" who lived long time ago? Who spreads lies against sunnis and their MOST HOLY books totally degrade them? ONLY SHIAS!

3) They try to imporse *Their thoughts on others?*

When? Where? What? We don't IMPOSE our thoughts on anyone, we have the RIGHT to speak our mind and WE DO. Now, whether those facts are from shia books(which you might not like or might not want others to find out...etc.) Is that considered "imposing" ones thought on others, when he is just stating what is already known?

Anyone can preach their belifs and anyone can express their thoughts.

Anyone can preach their beliefs and anyone can express thei thoughts, so why were you excusing US of being intolerant, when you can't handle when we express our thoughts and our beliefs? Talk about hypocrisy and double standards!

AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: "DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH", THEY SAY "WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS" VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur'an-2:11-12]

[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited May 02, 2002).]

30

WITHER ISLAM!

31

[quote]
Originally posted by Serial Guppy:
***Does that mean I should dislike sunnis coz:

1) They are high-headed and intolerant to other's belifs?*

WE ARE? You are totally wrong there. Shias are intolerant, because they can't get enough of cursing and slandering people who lived 1400 years ago!!! And if you have any facts to prove your statement, please post.

2) They go out of their way to degrade and spread slander against other belivers?

Look who is talking! Who spreads lies and slander against sahabah and other "believers" who lived long time ago? Who spreads lies against sunnis and their MOST HOLY books totally degrade them? ONLY SHIAS!

3) They try to imporse *Their thoughts on others?*

When? Where? What? We don't IMPOSE our thoughts on anyone, we have the RIGHT to speak our mind and WE DO. Now, whether those facts are from shia books(which you might not like or might not want others to find out...etc.) Is that considered "imposing" ones thought on others, when he is just stating what is already known?

Anyone can preach their belifs and anyone can express their thoughts.

Anyone can preach their beliefs and anyone can express thei thoughts, so why were you excusing US of being intolerant, when you can't handle when we express our thoughts and our beliefs? Talk about hypocrisy and double standards!

**
[/quote]

My point exactly! None of what I accused you of is true! That must mean that what you accused me of is also untrue! There are always rotten apples in every tree and guess what my friend, your tree isnt exactly full of juicy ripe apples!!

I could keep arguing and piling immense agruments against sunnis. But I dont. Because:

1} Fighting with you would achive nothing. I would only grow more arrogant and proud while you would follow suit...

2) I dont stoop to the lowest levels of ignorance to find that I have only accused my own brother wrong.

3) I cant PROOVE anything to you. Just like you cant proove anything to me. We belive what we wish to belive in and would die if our belifs are shaken. That makes both of us pig headed and arrogant

P.S I wrote all that to only see your reaction. And I must say, i'm immpressed. You cry in outrage when someone accuses you. Dont we shias ave any right to cry in outrage aswell when we see lies spreading against us everyday? Cant we grow biased and angry when someone accuses us of stooping low? What you accuse us of is totally false (other than a few scattered slandering here and there) and I vouch for that.

32

*My point exactly! None of what I accused you of is true! That must mean that what you accused me of is also untrue! *

How can you say what we post from YOUR OWN BOOKS is not true? How can it be, when you say something and its NOT true and with the same token, when we say something with references from your own books, that is not true either? Thats stupid logic!

We are not accusing you of anything, we are ONLY posting verses and stuff from your own books, is that hard to understand? Instead of coming up with nice counter statements “ripe apples or not,” why don’t you refute the REFERENCES. If you don’t have any knowledge OF YOUR OWN BOOKS, SAY SO!
We don’t want to make this painful for you, nor do you have to delay and ignore the facts by twisting this into something else!

When you “accuse” someone, you bring facts and post them. We didn’t accuse you of anything, only posted FACTS from your HOLY books and gave the references. NOW WHERE ARE YOUR REFERENcES of what you accuse us of? None!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited May 02, 2002).]

33

That is just it. I dont belive in the references Daniyal has given. I, who can safely say has some knowledge of shia books have never herad of ‘loaning of virgins’ and the like. It is totally ubsurd. My brother in Islam, serrey baba has given you referneces we belive are true which crealy counter what you guys have accused us of!

You cant back up your claim of our slandering the ‘great’ people with references can you? Nor an you safely proove that we are trying to impose our veiws on you guys by using our books.

Result- We both loose and the non belivers win!

34

well said shah jahan!!!

35

Why don’t you go and research on those references before even saying you don’t believe in them or don’t know them!

rahee baat slandering the great people, well thats very well known. Shias do it all the time and their books are even worst.
Don’t you shias curse and slander sahaba, whether alone or in front of other people(shia or sunni)???

References can wait, till you answer the question(if you answer no, it will prove that you lack knowledge of your own holy books, if you answer yes, it will prove shia slandering great people without any need for posting references on my behalf). Both cases, its a lose-lose situation for YOU!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

36

Shah jahan some ppl will remain ignorant and stubborn , its very hard for them to grasp the real facts about shias when their whole life have been in denial.
We all here to learn and its our job to remove the misconceptions mind you nobody is imposing on anyone. I dont blame them, unfortunately this disease of spreading nonsensical material have been scattered all over the place..

37

There is a good and bad in every society it depends how ppl control their temper against some caliphs.
We shias do belive the first three caliphs were fallible and history supports it(thas another issue) but some curse on them which I presonally dun think its right.
Kiyou khama khaya apni zubaan kaali karni hey..Its just a matter of personal choice

38

Taking the easy way out, sherrybaba?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Labeling me with “ignorant/stubborn,” only shows weakness of your argument and falsehood.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Using “degrading” language in an argument is weapon of the weak and someone who does not have facts on his/her side, thus s/he retorts to name calling and lowering someone elses just to put some weight in their own weak argument. Nice try!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

I will wait for Shah Jahan to answer my question:
***Don’t you shias curse and slander sahaba, whether alone or in front of other people(shia or sunni)???

References can wait, till you answer the question(if you answer no, it will prove that you lack knowledge of your own holy books, if you answer yes, it will prove shia slandering great people without any need for posting references on my behalf). Both cases, its a lose-lose situation for YOU! ***

Regarding this statement that he made:
*You cant back up your claim of our slandering the ‘great’ people with references can you? *

39

My brother Serial Guppy, Good Job

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

See, Shias are adamant and stubborn. There’s no need to answer each and every comment of such bigots. They have an agenda, and they never waver from it, and if you quote from the most authentic of their books, which are universally accepted by the Shia scholars, they quickly dismiss it as being “inauthentic” !!!

There’s no limit to their lies, hatred and bigotry.

Serial Guppy, if you answer one point, they’ll change the topic and bring in 100 other points. It is very much like the behavior of the Indians.

So, this is basically their way of arguing. They’ll call apples as grapes. Then, you define and tell them what an apple is and what a grape is. They’ll agree , but then they’ll return to square one, and again start calling apples as grapes.

I hope I could devote more of time in answering such bigots. You are doing a darn good job Serial Guppy. May Allah reward you abundantly for your efforts to respond back to the enemies of the Deen. Aameen.

40

[quote]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:
**
So, this is basically their way of arguing. They'll call apples as grapes. Then, you define and tell them what an apple is and what a grape is. They'll agree , but then they'll return to square one, and again start calling apples as grapes.

**
[/quote]

khoon where were you dude..I missed you..

btw I loved your Apple and grapes example hope you have more fruity examples like mango and orange ..now I'm hungry..