Desert Fox:
I never consider shi'tes as non-muslims. At the same time, I do not subscribe to the shi'ite version of history as well.
If you want we can start a separate thread (highly controversial) where for the same historical fact you can give me the shi'ite version and I can provide the other version. As far as facts go, both will be correct, but as far as understanding goes, they will be different. The only condition is that we have to be courtieous towards all personalities in Islamic history, and proper decorum should be maintained. As this is highly difficult in this forum, so I would not suggest it.
Lets take your two observations. As you have provided your views, so I will give you the sunni version. I am not trying to convince you of anything, Desert Fox, I am just presenting these purely for the benefit of any other muslim who is interested in Islamic histroy:
In the last days of the Prophet (SAW) worldly life, who did he ask to lead the prayers? He asked Abu Bakr (RA). So, even in the lifetime of our Prophet (SAW), Abu Bakr was leading the prayers on the instructions of our Prophet (SAW). No one from Ahl-bayat objected to this. At one time, Abu Bakr and the rest of the muslims were ready to offer the prayers, suddenly the Prophet came out of his room into the mosque. Abu Bakr immediately moved back so that the Prophet could lead the prayers, but the Prophet asked Abu Bakr to lead the prayers and he, the Prophet, offered the prayers behind Abu Bakr.
Secondly, in his life time, the Prophet (SAW) said that after him, a mahajr should be made the khalifa. Please remeber that Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, Ali and all the Ahle-bayat were mahajirs.
However as soon as the news of his death was spread, the "Ansaar" (people of Madina) joined at a place out of Madina and started discussing that now it is the turn of one of Ansaar to become the Khalipha. On hearing this, Hazrat Umar (RA) rushed to the spot and when he himself saw what is being discussed, he immediately sent for Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr, who was sitting beside the Prophet (SAW) was very upset on this and said "This is not the time for meeting and discussing such things. All this can wait".
But Hazrat Umar insisted that the situation will become very complicated if immediate action is not taken. Now both Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar were at the place where the ansaar were gathered and there Hazrat Umar gave his famous speech where he implored the muslims (Ansaar and Mahajireen) to follow the wishes of the Prophet (SAW). Hazrat Umar was the first person who took baiyaat on the hands of Hazrat Abu Bakr. On seeing this, the ansaar became very ashamed of their actions and all of them started taking baiyaat on the hands of Abu Bakr and a big fitna was averted by the timely action of Hazrat Umar.
Clearly Hazrat Ali was not in this gathering, and he actually expressed his resentment that the family of the Prophet should have been invited to such an important decision-making meeting. Hazrat Ali, in fact did not take baiyaat on the hands of Abu Bakr for more than one month. Hazrat Umar, then convinced him that the urgency of the hour demanded the immediate action and there was no planned desire to keep the family of the Prophet away from the decision making. Now when Hazrat Ali, homself took the baiyaat of Abu Bakr, why would we, 1500 years later, consider oterwise?
Following are the words of our Prophet (SAW) about all the four caliphs:
Abu Bakr: I have repaid the debts of everyone but I cannot repay the debt of Abu Bakr.
Umar: If there had been another Prophet after me, it would have been Umar.
Usman: He is "Zu-ul-Naurain" (between two lights). If I had a third daughter I would also have given her to Usman.
Please remember that the Prophet first married off one of his daughters to Usman, and on her death married the second to Usman as well.
Ali: Ali is from me, and I am from Ali.
Let me also clear another misconception:
When Hazrat Ali became the Fourth Caliph, there was fight between the forces of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ayesha. Some shi'ites are under the misconception that the sunnis feel that Hazrat Aysha was right and Hazrat Ali was wrong. This is incorrect. During the life time of our Prophet (SAW), he had himself warned that Hazrat Ayesha will commit one mistake. And this war with Hazrat Ali was her mistake. And do you know why this war was fought in the first place? Hazrat Ayesha demanded the qisas for the death of Hazrat Usman immediately. Hazrat Ali responded that he first needs to consolidate his khilafat as the fitna of "kharjis" (the rebels who had martyred Usman) was very bad and needed careful handling. Hazrat Ayesha kept on insisting, while Ali said that qisas will be taken but he (Ali) needs some time. On this Hazrat Ayesha made her mistake and fought the war. On her defeat, Hazrat Ali, made her go back to her home in Madina and asked her to stay there. The war was a terrible tragedy, and many muslims from both sides were lost.
..and Allah Knows Best
(If any muslims wants to know the lives and greatness of eminent sahaba, the khulafa-e-rashideen, then the books by Egyptian historian Muhammad Husaain Haikle are highly recommended.)
As you will notice, that the facts of our history are common, but you will probably not agree to the version I related above. As shi'ites may have a different version.
In the end, I will again say, that religious tolerance demands that each of us has a right to our thinking. No muslim should call another muslim Kaafir. There is a very famous hadith which we must all keep in our minds:
[quote]
"If one muslim calls another muslim kaafir, then, by God, one of them is".
[/quote]
This proves, mon amie, that we must be careful in what we say to another muslim, as only Allah Ta'lla the truth, right?
Islam has a very simple way of defining a muslim, so you or me can not innovate on that. Nor can a Sunni declare any shi'a a non-muslim, or vice versa.
Re: faceup, I would disagree with your comments. I don't believe he is a shi'a. As all shi'ites also believe in Sunnah of our Prophet (SAW). However, faceup constantly refuses to accept that both Quran and Sunnah are the basis of Islamic Sharia. I don't care if he doesn't consider Sahih Bukhari as true, but atleast he should accept the ahadith quoted by shi'ite scholars and admit that ahadith and Sunnah are important for us to understand Islam. He may have been born in a shi'a household, but since then he has deviated. We can only pray that Allah guides him to the right path.
Adios!
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 01, 2000).]
